Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya • Hacker News Board

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#71

Post by Applejinx » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #57

ceilingcorner wrote: post #3

Sorry but unless you provide actual links to so-called misinformation, I’m going to assume that this is either overexaggerated or labeling anything against Western values as disinformation. Especially when it is described as ”This industry’s main goal is to sway public opinion during elections and protests ” which is different than every other media organization how, exactly?

I think you're missing the point, as a Twitter user, do you expect other users to be paid money to post and retweet things that they were told to post and retweet by some patron? Do you expect to be baited by some fake account that is sold to the best bidder for amplification? And do you expect the recommendations and trending to be full of manipulated content that actually all come from a single source of coordinate…

As a twitter user, you'd damn well better expect all this.

The difference between this revolution in social media influencing, and previous revolutions in social media influencing seized and used for fascism such as the use of new radio preceding WWII, is this:

With radio, you were told things by a trusted stranger and believed them because it was on the radio and, thus, news.

Now, you are told things by what is apparently the personal friend of your personal friend, 'privately'. And you believe them because it is real. Your friend said so. Sort of.

It's an advance in propaganda technology for SURE. I don't know where it goes, but it's not like humanity hasn't had to weather this sort of thing before. The parallels are completely obvious, historically. It is nothing more than recontextualizing how to get information past critical questioning, and it's just as effective as the first radio was in its day.

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#72

Post by ClumsyPilot » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #59

mfer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am reading through the comments and I have to say westerners really think all news is about them. As a westerner, I've discovered that we forget that we are less than 20% of the global population. Bringing that up in conversation can surprise people.

For news, is global population the best metric to use? Wouldn’t you want maybe the “origin of things that will effect everyone”? What percent of the global economy? What percent of industry/invention? What percent of entertainment? What percent of military? Edit: No one wants to address military

"Wouldn’t you want maybe the “origin of things that will effect everyone"

No, our media is fucked.

UK media is obsessed with random news from USA, if Sarah Palin says something dumb it will be all over the papers, but if poland gets a new president it might not even be mentioned. In the past year my local news has never printed the name of my local MP but has printed maybe 100 of donald trump's tweets.

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#73

Post by Applejinx » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

uniqueuid wrote: post #11

ceilingcorner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

accountability, transparency and formal ethics codices Are you seeing much of this lately? Lately as in the last 40 years? I certainly am not.

Disclaimer: I study this stuff as a scientist. Yes accountability especially in the US is lacking. But there is some, there are formal ethical codices (i.e. see NPR's https://www.npr.org/ethics ), there is proper journalism training (see e.g. the Annenberg schools). If you compare the US media to other nations, and especially if you look at them historically, they have been pretty good at this. I'd argue that your st…

There is also the societal expectation that, just because a mainstream media news source asserts something, it may possibly not be 100% authentic. Never mind the direction that doubt can lead you: there's a trace of skepticism.

What's going on (by now, obviously) with Twitter and Facebook and all, is that they are a vector for bypassing skepticism, by delivering information purportedly from your personal friend who is personally trusted.

Still no neutrality, but if you can make a web of propaganda through people who are believing things their apparent 'friends' (through various signifiers) are saying, and coordinate that, you can propagandize WAY more effectively than through mainstream media.

And that's what's happening. Everywhere.

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#74

Post by dexen » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

harikb wrote: post #40

dexen wrote: post #5

Why is Mozilla, of all orgs, performing foreign activism and reporting on Twitter users in hopes of getting them banned? "We want to do good", sure, but that's two bits of a stretch here. Nothing in the article as posted indicates that the "disinformation influencers" were nefarious actors. For all the description given, it might have been grassroots citizens action, only labeled "disinformation" by officials or gove…

The article is blaming Twitter for being callous with its trending algorithms being abused with some coordination between larger number of folks. I think this is very much Mozilla’s business, just as much as any campaign in the West. The researchers are based in Kenya, writing about Kenyans. They just happen to be employed by Mozilla. Sorry I don’t get why that is a problem?

>callous with trending algorithms >abuse with some coordination

I take umbrage with those characterizations.

The practices described (pre-arranged release of information, voicing mutual support in coordinated manner, agreed-upon language and form) have for decades been the hallmark of professional marketing and journalism. Back when print and broadcast media were the top game, those methods were used by the small groups of legitimate journalists and marketers.

Twitter correctly recognizes coordinated release of information as signal of particularly important and valuable content. People organically coordinate release of information for it to get its full due impact and attention. People also organically ask their friends and business contacts to chip in with an upvote or reblog (or whatever is the equivalent on Twitter). Calling Twitter's or users' behaviors "callous" or "inauthentic" when it's the regular people - that is way off the mark.

My uncharitable read of it is - this whole venture reeks of gatekeeping for the old-guard legitimate journalism.

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#75

Post by aj3 » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

tclancy wrote: post #70

deft wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is wasting its limited funding fighting random individual boogeyman rather than develop software that helps protect our freedoms. It's really sad.

What software would that be? There are not technological solutions to social problems.

Education is societal problem and can be solved by technological means. Developing free, lightweight and portable browser is one of the solutions necessary to make knowledge more available, therefore this tech addresses social problem.

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#76

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #53

dexen wrote: post #5

Why is Mozilla, of all orgs, performing foreign activism and reporting on Twitter users in hopes of getting them banned? "We want to do good", sure, but that's two bits of a stretch here. Nothing in the article as posted indicates that the "disinformation influencers" were nefarious actors. For all the description given, it might have been grassroots citizens action, only labeled "disinformation" by officials or gove…

> Nothing in the article as posted indicates that the "disinformation influencers" were nefarious actors People getting paid money to perform coordinated repost of content sent to them by anonymous sources? Fake accounts used to amplify and retweet the messages? What else are you looking for? It's like they told you someone stole money at gunpoint and you said you don't see anything indicative of theft.

[deleted]

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#77

Post by bob229 » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

Twitter is a cancer. Only a fool uses it

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#78

Post by lostgame » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #59

mfer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am reading through the comments and I have to say westerners really think all news is about them. As a westerner, I've discovered that we forget that we are less than 20% of the global population. Bringing that up in conversation can surprise people.

For news, is global population the best metric to use? Wouldn’t you want maybe the “origin of things that will effect everyone”? What percent of the global economy? What percent of industry/invention? What percent of entertainment? What percent of military? Edit: No one wants to address military

Definitely kinda proving the above commenter’s point; here, rather than dissuading it...

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#79

Post by lostgame » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

uniqueuid wrote: post #21

recursivedoubts wrote: post #17

> "New research by two Mozilla Fellows reveals how malicious, coordinated, and inauthentic attacks on Twitter are undermining Kenyan civil society" i am glad that we here in the west are not subject to this sort of social media engineering and can participate in open and thoughtful debate on topics no matter how our elites feel about them

I honestly can't tell if you are cynical. Because this is exactly what is the case! We are here and can participate in these discussions, more than ever before in history. There are limits to free discussions (i.e. if you threaten or plot to kill somebody), but these limits have never been less in any country in any time. So - let's not be overly pessimistic?

When these free discussions turn into anti-vax bullshit which has literally made people willing to have people die than listen to reason, it’s caused me to wonder when free speech goes too far.

Re: Disinformation-for-hire in Kenya

#80

Post by didibus » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

Applejinx wrote: post #71

didibus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point, as a Twitter user, do you expect other users to be paid money to post and retweet things that they were told to post and retweet by some patron? Do you expect to be baited by some fake account that is sold to the best bidder for amplification? And do you expect the recommendations and trending to be full of manipulated content that actually all come from a single source of coordinate…

As a twitter user, you'd damn well better expect all this. The difference between this revolution in social media influencing, and previous revolutions in social media influencing seized and used for fascism such as the use of new radio preceding WWII, is this: With radio, you were told things by a trusted stranger and believed them because it was on the radio and, thus, news. Now, you are told things by what is appa…

So Twitter should do nothing about it and even make it easier for people to sign up to be for-hire parrots ? And we just all stop complaining about it ?