71–80 of 141 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For some people it's a nice challenge to tackle. So is killing a tiger, but you don't see any stripes on my wall.
Sure, getting Linux to run on hardware you purchased is equivalent to poaching. Very reasonable take.
I’m extremely impressed with anyone’s ability to do this at any age, but if I remember correctly, she’s like 17-19 years old or something? Incredible! You go Alyssa!
(Congrats to Alyssa and everyone making this possible!)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple is not known to provide any documentation, and it's incredibly hard to get Linux running since the introduction of T1 chips.
The T1 had zero impact whatsoever on getting Linux running. The T2 did, but only because Apple's NVMe implementation wasn't quite spec compliant. The trouble we've had with Apple hardware other than that is that Apple have made whatever design choices suit them best rather than following any external standards.
WiFi and audio devices still don't work on most models released after that: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
I know a pipedream, but if apple provided the docs and drivers for Linux on m1, it would really cement the current defacto standard of a MacBook as the development laptop of choice Amazing progress - but I wonder if getting accelerated gui is 10x the current effort No skin in the game, but can't wait to see how this progresses
> the current defacto standard of a MacBook as the development laptop of choice the problem with that is that the macbook hardware sucks. a lot.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"WiFi, Bluetooth and sleep issues." This is true for almost any random laptop, and has been since forever. Its obvious the M1 and its successors have a chance of becoming a well known constant since its a SoC, and not a collection of random components from many vendors (that might or might not have good inline-Linux driver). Intel Macs, other laptops have had different hardware components even for the same model over…
> This is true for almost any random laptop, and has been since forever. Not this old trope again. I haven’t had WiFi and sleep issues with Linux for at least a decade (I don’t use Bluetooth on laptops so can’t comment there). And I do use random laptops, including MBPs. People seem to hold on to the same old arguments about Linux that were true back when XP was released but things have unsurprisingly moved on since…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple is not known to provide any documentation, and it's incredibly hard to get Linux running since the introduction of T1 chips.
The T1 had zero impact whatsoever on getting Linux running. The T2 did, but only because Apple's NVMe implementation wasn't quite spec compliant. The trouble we've had with Apple hardware other than that is that Apple have made whatever design choices suit them best rather than following any external standards.
If you define running as "Linux boots", than this is correct, but as the the T1 chip provides access to the Touch Bar which is necessary to have function keys, I'd argue that there was indeed impact of the T1 chip for Linux essential compatibility. Also access to the webcam is provided by the T1 chip and required a quirk to work, as well as Touch Id, which isn't even supported at all yet.
What the parent comment was probably referring to is not the impact of the T1 chip per se, but of all changes Apple introduced with the MacBook Pros featuring the T1 chip, like a different way of interacting with the input devices, a different setup for audio and Bluetooth, a new chipset for Wifi and so on. The sheer number of changes caused these devices having a pretty bad compatibility with Linux when they came out and even today there are still a lot of unsolved issues around audio, Bluetooth, Wifi and other components [1]. And of course some features like the extended capabilities of the Touch Bar or the Touch Id sensor are still completely unsupported.
Btw: T1 MacBook Pros also required a quirk for NVMe, because Apples implementation back then also wasn't standard-compliant [2], [3].
[1]: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
[2]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/124298bd03acebd9c9d...
[3]: https://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-nvme/2017-Februa...
I’m so worried this project will get 95% of the way there, and then all the fun issues will run out and the M1 will be just another MacBook with WiFi, Bluetooth and sleep issues. The obvious issue is to pay someone to do the work, and I am, but I still can’t shake the fear.
> I’m so worried this project will get 95% of the way there, and then all the fun issues will run out and the M1 will be just another MacBook with WiFi, Bluetooth and sleep issues. You are right to be worried. Getting all the nitty-gritty details about modern hardware without access to documentation is impossible. In the end this will somewhat work but will almost certainly have worse performance than MacOS with high…
Fundamentally like many engineering things, it's a Pareto principle thing. You can have a "basically working" device but it's a surprising amount of (potentially dull) work to get every last thing working properly.
I’m so worried this project will get 95% of the way there, and then all the fun issues will run out and the M1 will be just another MacBook with WiFi, Bluetooth and sleep issues. The obvious issue is to pay someone to do the work, and I am, but I still can’t shake the fear.
Considering that the GPU is completely properietary, without specs, and only used in a couple models, it's highly unlikely you'll ever see any driver in a working state for it. I mean, etnaviv and the like do exist, but it's definitely NOT in the same state as say intel or amd.
And if there's any type of roadblock (say signed firmware like nvidia) then goodbye.
I know a pipedream, but if apple provided the docs and drivers for Linux on m1, it would really cement the current defacto standard of a MacBook as the development laptop of choice Amazing progress - but I wonder if getting accelerated gui is 10x the current effort No skin in the game, but can't wait to see how this progresses
> the current defacto standard of a MacBook as the development laptop of choice the problem with that is that the macbook hardware sucks. a lot.
I’m extremely impressed with anyone’s ability to do this at any age, but if I remember correctly, she’s like 17-19 years old or something? Incredible! You go Alyssa!
Modern society tends to infantilize people. (Congrats to Alyssa and everyone making this possible!)
Well, from what I've heard regarding the frontal cortex, adult decision making is fully crystallized on average around age 25. So it kind of makes sense why on average society these days doesn't trust kids with important stuff.
Though, you know, statistics. There are outliers :-)