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Scanning “private” content

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Re: Scanning “private” content

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you seen an article that, say, criticizes prison system and needs to start with a reminder than killing people is wrong? I'm pretty sure I have, actually. In the age of Twitter mobs that can have you fired over a misplaced comma, nothing should be left to chance. And protecting yourself from a misunderstanding or ambiguity isn't enough anymore, as a lot of the time these people are malicious. They will not onl…

A problem is everyone giving in to outrage. There are some negative side effects for everyone, but just ignoring it is the most viable PR reaction. The people don't want to forgive anyway, they want emotional acknowledgement that nobody can supply on the net. We have books being scanned that were written 15 years ago that now have to be rewritten. Publishers should never acknowledge these criticisms, this is a form o…

I agree, but allow me to make a somewhat controversial analogy: this is the same as vaccination and herd immunity and seems to be something that people are instinctively opposed to.

Just like vaccination in a pandemic, ignoring the Twitter outrage is the safest thing when everybody does it (herd immunity). But currently, very few are doing it and since it is dangerous to the individual (re. vaccine analogy: while they ARE safe, many people BELIEVE them to be dangerous, so the result is the same), nobody wants the be the first. And since you can't know if others will follow your example, it's easy to feel like a guinea pig, so you give in and do the long-term worse thing instead.

But unlike with vaccination, the individual risk is very real and more importantly, you can't use moral arguments to convince the individual to take on personal risk to benefit the group like you can with vaccination (and even that rarely works). Companies, unlike people, are not expected to be moral actors (and I'd argue most have to be by definition immoral). So why would a company, journalist or anyone else that finds themselves the target of an outraged mob (or sees a real risk of that happening) not take all the necessary precautions to protect themselves?

Re: Scanning “private” content

#72
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is usually lazy to point at evolution in social situations, but I think "look after the babies" is probably an instinct that has been baked in to humans at a very deep level. It explains why the response is often positive but surprisingly strong and unreasonable (it is almost humourous the list of atrocities that are easier to defend than CSAM, and grim how the instinctual protections offered to children fade away…

One can invent a biological explanation for anything, that's the problem. The “instincts” in that reasoning is a stereotype anyway. Another problem is that “childhood” is pretty recent invention (there's enough popular and scholar literature on that). What you mean as a “child” is not what someone meant mere couple of hundreds years ago. And kids actually died all the time through the whole human history, whether “pr…

> And kids actually died all the time through the whole human history, whether “protected” or not.

I think that would almost be a point in favour of the idea. The response to CSAM is, frankly, irrationally strong in the modern era. As with many human emotions it looks to me like something calibrated for a different time and altered circumstances.

It is a lazy theory though.

Re: Scanning “private” content

#73

Apple will refuse requests to add other types of hashes … Sure, but when it’s mandated by law, what then? How difficult would it be to force insurrection related imagery to that hash database? Apple would be in a very tough spot if that were made into law. They’ve already opened a can of iWorms, because now that they’ve shown it can be done, lawmakers in any country can mandate the same technology be added to every d…

A small reminder that, iPhone in China holds their icloid data in China(雲上貴州) due to request of government. Will they ever reject request from government if that can harm their sell? I doubt.

Re: Scanning “private” content

#74

You should be forbidden from calling it private if you scan it like this. Companies should be forced to market their data storage as public so as to not deliberately mislead users

Public might not be the right word either, but I totally agree that it shouldn't be allowed to call it private. Maybe we need a new word for "not public, but not really private [from your corporate/government overlords] either". Is the fact that we need this new word a sign that we've gone too far? It's 1984 already, isn't it??

> Maybe we need a new word

Super-private, as in Supervised Private Data. :D

Re: Scanning “private” content

#76
post #3

I haven't seen much discussion of the changes to search, which seem a little dystopian as well: > Siri and Search are also being updated to intervene when users perform searches for queries related to CSAM. These interventions will explain to users that interest in this topic is harmful and problematic, and provide resources from partners to get help with this issue. Will apple.cn be extending this to searches about…

I noticed google doing this too while trying to look up case law related to the discussion of apple's spyware. Related google searches popped up a big intimidating notice: " WARNING Child sexual abuse imagery is illegal". The obvious implication is that your searches are being reported to some unaccountable authority. I have no doubt that this creates a chilling effect against public discussion about these practices.

The warning suggests that your search might return child sexual abuse imagery, which is odd.

If Google was doing its job, no search results would contain CP and they wouldn’t need to warn anyone. They probably shouldn’t warn anyone since all it does is alert people who might be looking for CP that they are being watched, and scares anyone who isn’t looking but their search terms have similar words.

The outcome is overall worse than if no alert popped up.

Re: Scanning “private” content

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSAM is just a very touchy subject (pun not intended) because people really loose their shit easily if you mismanage your words. It's kind of weird actually, no other crime can set people off so badly. And in the age of online witch hunting, well... I get why the author does it.

That's what I'm talking about. The questions arise immediately: Why is it a very touchy subject? Who made it such, and how? Is it the same for people outside of globalized US-sensibility-centered bubble? Is it a cultural thing? There is a widespread belief that proper technical solutions are enough: give us end-to-end encryption and such, and everything will be all right. But people do things for a reason, and techni…

> If the father makes his daughter send him sexual photos, and he is also the one who gets notified about it, what is the point?

> Then what about the father who gets notified about his daughter sending her boyfriend sexual photos while being completely okay with it?

Continuing on with your scenarios, what about an abusive father who gets notified his daughter is sending her boyfriend sexual photos or texts, gets jealous at the "competition", and then uses these anti-predation systems to further isolate his daughter? The phone that would have been a lifeline to the outside world then becomes another tool of control.

Re: Scanning “private” content

#78
post #8

The Butlerian Jihad cannot come soon enough. As time goes on, I realize that certain authors had better insights into the human condition than others. For example, Alduous Huxley has turned out to be more prophetic than George Orwell. I believe Frank Herbert will as well. Man cannot be ruled by machine. This cannot last much longer. A lot of political division in this country is due to technology. As someone genuinel…

So what you are really saying here is that "there is no sanctuary"?

Re: Scanning “private” content

#79
post #8

The Butlerian Jihad cannot come soon enough. As time goes on, I realize that certain authors had better insights into the human condition than others. For example, Alduous Huxley has turned out to be more prophetic than George Orwell. I believe Frank Herbert will as well. Man cannot be ruled by machine. This cannot last much longer. A lot of political division in this country is due to technology. As someone genuinel…

Endless wars, right and wrong language, always on connected devices monitoring us constantly? Orwell seems to have a point.
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