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Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

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Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#71

Post by true_religion »

sp332 wrote: post #60
CryptoPunk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You not solving their/society's problem doesn't make it unethical.

You think Apple should take actions that lead to a bunch of people dying, but without ethically being responsible for the result. That's not really how it works. It's a shitty situation but we can still hold people accountable for how they decide to react to it.

Nope. I think the government should take action. It should build housing for the homeless and move them out of Apples parking lot.

What other solution is there?

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#72

Post by freen »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #13
na85 wrote: post #7

Instead of stroking his ego by racing Branson to space, Bezos could personally buy each of these people a home in the Bay Area and wouldn't even notice a difference in his lifestyle. Tax the rich. Spend it on social programs.

Who’s Bezos supposed to buy the homes from? It seems like there is already a higher than average number of people living per house here, so distribution of housing is not really the problem. The total number of homes is too low. It would help if Bezos could build a huge number of new housing units, but that’s illegal (which is the problem).

There are enough empty houses to house every homeless person in the country: there are ~ 19 million empty houses in the country. (in 2019)

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#73

Post by [deleted] »

jxramos wrote: post #30

I was wondering when this would happen. There's been a steady sprawl of camps on all the highway exits/entrances by 280 and 85 in all the bush and trees that grow there. Cupertino seemed to keep it more or less contained and off the sidewalks, but that was about 2 years ago. When you ride on the high double decker buses you can see all the camps not visible at car height level that line the freeways. It's nuts. Wait…

[deleted]

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#74

Post by guerrilla »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #54
monkeybutton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they'd paid their fair share in taxes, they'd feel less guilty about the ethics. As it stands, they're not exactly helping society fix these problems.

Apple builds tens of millions of products every year that increase productivity. They're not indebted to society, let alone to the US where they are providing billions in salaries and capital appreciation income.

Of course they are, without society enfircing property rights then anyone could do the same. They also owe (as everyone does) society for even being in a state where they can exist and operate. They depend on society exstentially. It's not like they paid for infrastructure, business ecosyatem, the conditions for consumers to consume, etc. Without societ they'd be nothing at all.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#75

Post by epistasis »

lumost wrote: post #61
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s Bezos supposed to buy the homes from? It seems like there is already a higher than average number of people living per house here, so distribution of housing is not really the problem. The total number of homes is too low. It would help if Bezos could build a huge number of new housing units, but that’s illegal (which is the problem).

Start ratcheting up the property tax to improve utilization. Unaffordable homes are only affordable if the cash flow requirements are low. If there was an extra 3-6% property tax, it would align interests towards construction and punish speculators.

Yes, that would be ideal!! However homeowners in the late 1970s wrote into the state constitution that property taxes would be based on purchase price, and never increase more than 2% per year.

It's called Prop 13, and it needs to die. However, I fear it won't until there is a generational change.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#76

Post by [deleted] »

lumost wrote: post #61
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s Bezos supposed to buy the homes from? It seems like there is already a higher than average number of people living per house here, so distribution of housing is not really the problem. The total number of homes is too low. It would help if Bezos could build a huge number of new housing units, but that’s illegal (which is the problem).

Start ratcheting up the property tax to improve utilization. Unaffordable homes are only affordable if the cash flow requirements are low. If there was an extra 3-6% property tax, it would align interests towards construction and punish speculators.

[deleted]

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#77

Post by epistasis »

freen wrote: post #72
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s Bezos supposed to buy the homes from? It seems like there is already a higher than average number of people living per house here, so distribution of housing is not really the problem. The total number of homes is too low. It would help if Bezos could build a huge number of new housing units, but that’s illegal (which is the problem).

There are enough empty houses to house every homeless person in the country: there are ~ 19 million empty houses in the country. (in 2019)

Shipping people to other states against their will, and away from their connections, support networks, and whatever else they say need, is both unethical and counterproductive.

Who the hell cares about homes nobody wants to live in? Build homes where people want them, don't let a few wealthy assholes hoard the best climate from everyone else. Why defend the interests of rentiers and landlords like this? It helps no one except the very wealthy.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#78

Post by addicted »

addicted wrote: post #58
isatty wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you’ve identified the problem but the problem is not the responsibility of the owner of said private property.

So if someone dying of thirst lands at my doorstep, yes, it’s not my responsibility to give them a glass of water. Whether it’s my responsibility or not has absolutely no bearing on whether it’s ethical for me to not give them a glass of water. Maybe it is ethical to send them away thirsty. But that would be based on a lot more than whether it’s my responsibility or not. Being ethical isn’t limited to doing just what…

Personally, I think Apple does indeed have an ethical dilemma here caused by government specifically, and society broadly, failing in their responsibility towards habilitating the homeless and the mentally ill.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#79

Post by freen »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #53
freen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~500k homeless in the country. [0] Average monthly rent in the US:~ $1000 [1] Bezos net worth: $213 billion [2] Average return on investment for DJIA for the past ten years: 10.6% [3] Paying rent for all homeless folks is $6 billion a year. Bezos, if he makes average returns, makes $21.3 Billion a year. He can afford it. And still e one the richest people in the world. How do you live with that? 0: https://en.m.wikip…

If Bezos can afford it, the government can afford it. So why don't they do it?

Ask the GOP.

Sane countries house their people.

It ends of saving huge amounts of money. Single unhoused person with chronic illness can cost a city in excess of a million dollars a year.

Some people can’t countenance the “wrong” folks getting help they don’t “deserve”. Or that somehow help will discourage entrepreneurship. If that truly was the case they’d tax inheritances, but it’s not.

The cruelty is the point.

Re: Homeless encampment grows on Apple property in Silicon Valley

#80

Post by na85 »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #64
na85 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point, which seems to have soared over the heads of my detractors in this thread, is that the ultra rich should be taxed at a higher rate, and that money used to fund programs that combat homelessness. Jeff Bezos and the other dragons^H^H^H^H^H^H^H billionaires have demonstrably too much wealth, to the extent that they can afford dick-measuring contests like "whose CEO can get to space first, for no reason whatsoe…

A fine opinion, but the only nexus to the news story we are commenting on is the exhortation for Bezos to go buy a bunch of houses (which would only push prices even higher and make somebody else homeless).

There was no such exhortation. I used the word "could", not the word "should", for a reason. That reason was to illustrate that he can afford a tax and should be levied one.
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