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Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

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Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#71

Post by jeromegv »

catmanjan wrote: post #36
ageitgey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love postgres and the full-text search feature works great in some use cases, but it is not really comparable to elastic search in many scenarios (huge document stores, complex text processing or querying, etc).

Do you know for sure that postgres doesn't perform as well as elasticsearch if you don't use the relational capabilities of postgres? Instinctively I believe what you're saying, just wondering if you know for sure.

Searching a structured database just isn't the same as having a full on indexed search engine. Those are different tools for different usage.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#72

Post by blackoil »

echelon wrote: post #5
thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

It's hard to blame them when Amazon is eating their lunch. Well, it's more like they made a sandwich, Amazon stole it, and now Amazon is selling it to other people. Meanwhile Elastic.co is starving. It's not a fair game anymore. I hope the DOJ breaks them up into three or more companies.

They made an open sandwich recipe with help of common folks. Some were making at home but lot were buying from them as it is a complex sandwich to make. Starbuck started selling same sandwich because it wwas getting popular. Good for customers they have two competing vendors for it now. But ES is unhappy because the multi billion valuation is justified only if they are a monopoly.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#73

Post by altdataseller »

lolinder wrote: post #65
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The maintainers of the project chose to implement this change. You may not like it, and you are free to make a fork compatible with the original apache 2.0 license, but it is well within Elastic's right to add this. This is the danger with corporate open source in general. Facebook made a similar unilateral decision in relicensing React from Apache 2 to "BSD + Patents" many years ago. They faced quite a bit of pressu…

They have the right to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a bad idea politically. It comes off as Elastic prioritizing their war with Amazon over the community, leaving room for Amazon to continue to position themselves as the community's ally.

At the end of the day, CTOs and decision makers in corporations don't go with the company that position themselves as "allies". They go with the company that is shipping important new features, with better support and resiliency. If Elastic is shipping features faster than AWS is, then they'll go with Elastic. I bet most CTOs aren't even aware of the politics happening - it's only the echo chamber in Hacker News that is making a big deal of this.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#74

Post by nuker »

tempest_ wrote: post #25
whalesalad wrote: post #11

PostgreSQL should be everyone’s first choice for a data store. It can do so much, including serving as your full text search system.

Elastic's main selling point is not so much the full text search. The search is what it does but most of it's value is centered in the management/scaling/monitoring of full text search over many machines. I love Postgres but it's "clustering" story is definitely not as user friendly.

Is there a real scaling? Like increasing node count on indexing latency or CPU metrics?

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#75

Post by nuker »

thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

Reminds me of pfSense vs OPNsense saga

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#76

Post by t-writescode »

whalesalad wrote: post #11

PostgreSQL should be everyone’s first choice for a data store. It can do so much, including serving as your full text search system.

Are you aware that Lucene, the technology that powers ElasticSearch runs on top of SQL?

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#77

Post by teclordphrack2 »

This is definitaly going to blow up in their face.

I know at least a dozen people who learned open source elastic search in a research environment and then moved jobs to doing it in a for profit company.If the paid vs open source products are not going to be the same then your losing training that companies want.

I also have ran into the scenario that others have described where we use the open source version for proof of concept b/4 moving to the paid version when needed.

At the least, this muddies the waters and creates extra research time for engineers just to understand the licensing and cost implications of the product.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#78

Post by atonse »

zucker42 wrote: post #42
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to judge another’s actions from afar when it’s their meal and roof they’re working for. It’s okay for Amazon (a trillion dollar company) to make money off of their work but not themselves? Imho, the problem isn’t “well it’s not open source anymore then.” The problem is people who give more weight to a religion/philosophy than sustainability. Who cares if it’s open source if the people developing it can’t s…

It's entirely possible that the relicense and now this will have the the precisely the opposite effect though. I'm sure the relicense was an attempt to increase Elastic NV's revenues from SaaS by locking out competitors from using their same codebase (from public financial filings, Elastic NV is not profitable so they are probably looking to become so). But open source also attracts new customers and improves the pro…

It’s moves like this that have made me go from largely neutral in this fight to actively hating elastic.co.

It’s their fault for not differentiating their offering enough.

When I looked at logz.io, I spent hours trying to get it to work and ultimately gave up, irritated that my seemingly plain vanilla use case (send ubuntu journald logs to ES) wasn’t as straightforward as I would’ve liked. (I’m aware they aren’t affiliated with elastic, just saying there might have been an opportunity for them here)

If elastic had a way for me to blindly copy paste things into an ubuntu server that allowed me to see all my systemd logs, I would’ve happily paid them. Instead it was an endless maze of having to figure out beats vs logstash, finding a journalbeat whose documentation says it’s beta, etc.

Yet ultimately the only thing that worked was AWS ES service hooked up to vector.dev’s agent. And boy does it work amazingly well. And it’s not like Amazon is doing anything special.

It’s on them for not having differentiated and made things drop dead simple. Now they seem to want to play dirty like Oracle.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#80

Post by ckdarby »

altdataseller wrote: post #73
lolinder wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the right to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a bad idea politically. It comes off as Elastic prioritizing their war with Amazon over the community, leaving room for Amazon to continue to position themselves as the community's ally.

At the end of the day, CTOs and decision makers in corporations don't go with the company that position themselves as "allies". They go with the company that is shipping important new features, with better support and resiliency. If Elastic is shipping features faster than AWS is, then they'll go with Elastic. I bet most CTOs aren't even aware of the politics happening - it's only the echo chamber in Hacker News that…

Doesn't really matter, at most companies +150 employees CTOs are abstracted from making those decisions. It'll be senior level individual contributors that make the case across the org to other ICs.

At that level we're very much aware of the current situation. On a personal level the moment Elastic announced their changes I dropped all support for them moving forward.

They got out done on their own product. Elastic cloud had little value add and once managed ES came along it became pointless to use their cloud.

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