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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#71

Post by Barrin92 »

ipnon wrote: post #28
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

from the context of the article it seems like he's getting his PhD in Chinese studies, and obviously that likely means you will have relations to China, which is what the professor in question was worried about.

It's a little bit like majoring in Iranian studies, insulting the Ayatollah and prophet on Twitter and then being upset when you get barred from the country and people start professionally ditching you. Like, when you pursue an academic career with close ties to a country with a very different political set of values I would assume you understand the kind of diplomatic issues you can run into?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#72

Post by MikeUt »

ipnon wrote: post #28
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

Maybe not lose your job, but the University of California will prevent you from getting one, as they require all job candidates to commit to and have a history of advancing diversity. Conflicting political posts would probably harm your ability to pass this first step of the job application process.

The University’s New Loyalty Oath - https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-universitys-new-loyalty-oat...

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#73

Post by yann2 »

casualracism wrote: post #35
ipnon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

As I said in another comment, in the U.S., if you’re an African American studies PhD student and you post a racist cartoon depicting black stereotypes, it’s not hard to imagine losing your doctorate candidacy.

What happens if I study cockroaches? Chinese cockroaches to be specific.

Am I allowed to post cartoons about them? What about bears?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#74

Post by elygre »

ipnon wrote: post #28
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

In the US, tweeting critically about Israel would probably be the bigger risk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Salaita_hiring_contro...

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#75

Post by mdp2021 »

pacman2 wrote: post #36
stainforth wrote: post #7

The supervisor is a coward and should be known as one.

Is she? I love China and if somebody pulls a stunt like that that may blow up in my face I would take action too. Think about if you were in CS and a student of your would post some ISIS shit on the internet and you were threatened with a travel ban to the US. I think most people would think twice.

People of other cultures, if told "Entity E will make so that if any student of yours expresses an opinion against E, you shall pay consequences", would make a perfectly consequently legitimate and correct declaration against E (defamating E in light of judgements evident and justifiable in some solid ethical frameworks: confusion in the attribution of responsibility, bullism, even the nowadays overused concept of terrorism, etc.).

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#76

Post by rdiddly »

ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

And yet I have more respect for someone criticizing China who has actual skin in the game.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#77

Post by kome »

ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

monumental stupidity or monumental courage?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#79

Post by jacksonkmarley »

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point:

> In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen.

So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what happened to his actual PhD program at the Chinese university that I noticed.

The actual evidence of chinese influence?

> She said she had received a message from a Chinese doctoral student doing research at a Canadian university.

So, it sure sounds like some people had their feelings hurt.

My totally made-up hypothesis on this article: honest reporter researched a story, realised it was pretty weak, then when they wrote it up shuffled things around a bit to give an exaggerated impact, but couldn't bring themselves to lie or leave out any facts.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#80

Post by Tade0 »

_Microft wrote: post #10
thaumasiotes wrote: post #5

> In the United States too, a quarter of the country’s Confucius Institutes have been shut down in recent years. Universities no longer wanted to give legitimacy to an institution that defended fundamentally different values. Well, that makes a statement about the purpose of a university.

Are you familiar with the „paradox of tolerance“ already? You can read about it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance First paragraph copied for your convenience: „The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to ma…

It's a paradox if one sees it as a moral attitude, but it's actually a peace treaty.
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