Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 876 posts

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#71

Post by bellyfullofbac »

papito wrote: post #45
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close to the top of the article: > Between the lines: While the numbers are down this year, that's probably because many U.S. embassies and consulates remain closed for COVID-19, and taking this grave step requires taking an oath in front of a State Department officer. So it seems these are American passport holders who already live in foreign countries, so contributing to American infrastructure, etc, but not benefi…

They would not be EU citizens. The taxes are even higher. The article is around specifically renouncing American citizenships. Also, dual-citizenship is useless. If you are, say, in Russia, and you have your Russian passport on you, the American consulate won't lift a finger - your ass is wholly Moscow's.

Ah, this comments thread will just be full of ignorants won't it...

Yes, true about local passports, but if I have a German and American passport in Russia, I'd just call the German embassy. Or is it not good enough, America number 1, Germany number 8?[1] BTW in your (correct) scenario, what's the point of owning the American passport?

On the topic of taxes, most countries have tax treaties. If their tax level is 30% in Germany and 5% in the US, they can pay the 5% and fill in a paper for the German tax authorities, and the 5% is discounted.

Maybe they're just people who didn't want to finance an idiocracy with the biggest firepower in the world. But rah rah, 'Murica!

[1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/taiwan-1

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#72

Post by gertrunde »

A couple of sources from another perspective:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-31/why-th...

https://theconversation.com/americans-are-renouncing-us-citi...

And one fun quote:

"Still, all American expats – even those who’ve lived abroad for decades, earn no income in the U.S., and hold no U.S. assets – must submit an annual tax return to the Internal Revenue Service. Now, ever since Congress strengthened anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financial reporting requirements, many have had to hire costly international accounting firms to do their taxes.

The consequences of noncompliance are severe: forfeiting up to 50% of all undeclared assets held overseas."

There may be some "ultra-wealthy" people doing this, but I suspect that they are not the bulk of it by a long way.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#73

Post by alephnan »

rwmj wrote: post #60
tartoran wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is about wealthy people. We all know they are paying relatively no taxes or doing their best to. Yes, Americans who moved to Europe and are happily making a living there are also giving up US citizenship but end up paying taxes in 2 places or deal with a lot of hassle they’d rather not

No one's moving the Europe for the lower taxes.

Cyprus gives you access to the EU while being a tax haven.

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/11/9/21547055/eric-schmidt-g...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#74

Post by nickthemagicman »

I would be happy to pay taxes if I thought that my tax money was being used well.

I wonder if these mega rich are leaving to avoid paying taxes to a what they view as a mismanaged governmental system because they think they can do a better job of distributing their money and making the world a better place.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#75

Post by moss2 »

engineer_22 wrote: post #21
surajs wrote: post #10

Once when young, I used to dream of living and working in the US, how naive I was!

Where are you now? What do taxes cost you?

Not related, but I pay about 40% income tax plus a 25% value-added tax (VAT) on every purchase.

It's at a good level but my political belief is that this should be higher.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#76

Post by apples_oranges »

circular_logic wrote: post #63

Interesting facts about renouncing American citizenship: - There is renunciation fee that has to be paid and currently stands at $2,350 (the highest in the world).[1] - A final tax return will sill need to be filed. [1] - An Expatriation tax is payable if [..] Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation. you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation a…

Can a citizenship be exchanged? For example you get my Australian passport, I get your American? Neither country loses a taxpayer this way.. ;)

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#77

Post by compsciphd »

it's not just about taxes. US Citizens who live overseas can't invest in what are effectively foreign mutual funds (PFIC in IRS parlance). While retirement plans are generally exempted if there's a tax treaty, that doesn't help other forms of money one might get.

Your local government gives your child a grant of money each month to be invested in a choice of funds? You're a US citizen? sorry, you're out of luck, this makes doing taxes effectively very very difficult.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#78

Post by moneywoes »

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

In Canada and not being able to open a tax free savings account is a major blow

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#79

Post by alephnan »

syops wrote: post #29
altcognito wrote: post #2

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

If a person has no income or capital gains from the U.S. and doesn’t live in the U.S. shouldn’t they be exempt from paying U.S. taxes? Also, shouldn’t foreign financial institutions be exempt from reporting to the U.S. about financial activities of U.S. citizens when they are outside the U.S.? I think the answer to both questions ought to be yes. EDIT: I’m aware of the rules regarding income taxes for Americans based…

Foreign banks in nations with treaties with the United States require you to file a special form to the IRS when opening a bank account, furthermore they will report information on your bank account to the US government.
Post reply on HN