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Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

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Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#71

Post by arsome »

pmarreck wrote: post #56
yosito wrote: post #16

Does anyone have any more specific information aside from "widespread sexism"? It would be good to know exactly what is prompting this walkout, and exactly what changes they're hoping to achieve with it.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

Eh... take a look at some of the shit that was reported in the lawsuits, seems a lot worse than mis-interpreted "ribbing".

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#72

Post by 0x500x79 »

madamelic wrote: post #21
0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

My lack of knowledge of the DFEH and other cases they have tackled are probably the reason for my question. The rebuke from Riot was more data driven in which they point out a few misleading claims from the DFEH: https://www.pcgamesn.com/riot-games-lawsuit-dfeh-response. Both Blizzard and Riot have a similar response stating that the DFEH is out of line, misrepresenting claims, or baseless. It either points to very bad SoCal video game company cultures or maybe there is some merit to the rebuttles. Maybe the real answer is somewhere in between.

Crossing my fingers for widespread changes either way. The video game industry has a long-standing reputation for many other things besides just not being inclusive.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#73

Post by vkou »

underseacables wrote: post #66
pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

I think it’s just important for everyone to recognize the new paradigm: make no comments about your coworkers whatsoever, do not complement, do not ask about their personal life, do not talk about politics, because the only safe thing to do is to be as robotic as possible.

In the case of Blizzard, the more relevant advice is "Don't grope your coworkers, don't give subordinates unsolicited advice on how to perform sexual acts, don't get drunk at work and hit on your coworkers, don't sleep with subordinates, and don't distribute nude pictures of your coworkers over e-mail. Also, don't retaliate against people who report harassment."

I think a moderately intelligent, moderately socialized human being may be quite capable of avoiding this minefield of do's and don'ts without being a robot.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#74

Post by imbnwa »

bin_bash wrote: post #42
madamelic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

> Think about all those men complaining that a video game _dared_ have a female character or even more so, a non-conventionally attractive one gasp. That was in 2018... That's the _average_ person who is making a video game. What game are you referring to?

The Last of Us Part II I presume

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#75

Post by colinmhayes »

underseacables wrote: post #66
pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

I think it’s just important for everyone to recognize the new paradigm: make no comments about your coworkers whatsoever, do not complement, do not ask about their personal life, do not talk about politics, because the only safe thing to do is to be as robotic as possible.

I mean if you're not able to tell when people are uncomfortable yea. Otherwise just be respectful.

One of the blizzard employees killed herself after being sexually harassed and you're trying to play this off by making a strawman.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#76

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

waythrifty5746 wrote: post #12

Good, walkouts are an effective way to drive organizational change. We had massive walkouts at Wayfair due to our policy of selling furniture to US Customs concentration camps that held tens of thousands of children. Only took Wayfair a few years to somewhat change their policy in a roundabout and nondescript way, but at least some movement took place.

Ah, those (in)famous concentration camps that instantly turn to migrant shelters when democrats are in power.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#77

Post by 908B64B197 »

dleslie wrote: post #24
bagacrap wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't think Blizzard is going to be able to bring in scabs to replace software devs. This comment reveals how poorly the industry is understood by outsiders, or at least this one journo.

I don't think they'll introduce "scabs" simply because it would be a marketing _disaster_. However, I work in the industry, and I think you'd be shocked by how replaceable American developers are. Huge amounts of artistic labour _is_ done cheaply, and in relatively decent quality, oversees in countries like South Korea, China, Japan, and to a lesser extent, Thailand. Here in Canada, we have a thriving industry that i…

> Here in Canada, we have a thriving industry that includes both primary developers and developers who focus on outsourced work. Most of my career has been involved with shops that were sub-contracted labour from American studios.

The situation in Canada is interesting: their own government heavily pitched the country as an outsourcing destination, boasting Canadians devs are worth 50k less than American ones. [0]

Is that a popular measure?

[0] https://globalnews.ca/news/4178326/amazon-vancouver-tech-wor...

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#78

Post by [deleted] »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #39
madamelic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

>It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use voice comms or make their gender known. Gamers talk down to everyone on video games and have since they have been invented. This sounds like a new group of people entering an existing space and not understanding the dynamic (namely incessant shittalking). I can't even count how many strang…

[deleted]

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#79

Post by majormajor »

Daishiman wrote: post #68
908B64B197 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men That's debatable. CS was overwhelmingly male and wasn't prestigious until recently. > video games even more so I wonder how much of that we can attribute to DOOM. The DOOM devs wanted to make an hyper-violent game centered around Demon and heavy metal, and that reflected in the culture at id (not the violence). And they made a bunch of money which spurr…

> That's debatable. CS was overwhelmingly male and wasn't prestigious until recently. We're talking about the same career that's been known as a money-printing machine for the past 25 years?

> We're talking about the same career that's been known as a money-printing machine for the past 25 years?

20 years ago it was fairly frequently perceived as both very nerdy in an unpopular way and in imminent danger of being outsourced entirely.

It's sad how many people who had to put up with bullying for their interests back then quickly became bullies themselves when they had the opportunity. Of all people, we should know better.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#80

Post by madamelic »

underseacables wrote: post #66
pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

I think it’s just important for everyone to recognize the new paradigm: make no comments about your coworkers whatsoever, do not complement, do not ask about their personal life, do not talk about politics, because the only safe thing to do is to be as robotic as possible.

Yes, that is a valid response.

But like... just don't comment on people's bodies. That's weird as heck. If you aren't having sex with them, commenting on their breasts or making sexually charged statements at work is insanely inappropriate.

One story I heard was that a women with large breasts was having a blast playing at an internal Battle of the Bands and one of the judges said, in front of the crowd on a mic, "I like your big... talents".

WHAT THE F___?! How can that be said at a work event and HR isn't like throwing down the gauntlet.

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