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The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

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Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#71

Post by kcartlidge »

bsenftner wrote: post #50
everyone wrote: post #4

Can ye recommend any novels / authors that are as hard sci-fi as KSR or Arthur C Clarke?

I strongly recommend Greg Bear. His first novel "Blood Music" is a unique take on an AI out of control, and he continues with a series independent of novels which all take place in a unified "future history". One of my favorite aspects of his future history is the combination of the bio-genetic, cosmetic surgery, and pop media artist industries to create transhumanist pop media artists, and spawning a transhumanist y…

Definitely Greg Bear.

When I started reading grown-up SF decades ago it was with Bear, Bova, Niven, Pournelle, and the like. Back then Eon, Blood Music, and Ringworld (for example) were mind-blowingly vast concepts.

As an aside (and purely because it's probably my turn for some hefty downvotes) I'd definitely agree with the comment elsewhere in this thread about the Foundation books being overrated. Almost unreadably dull and feeling more like any concept of 'plot' is just a carrier for a couple of mediocre ideas.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#72

Post by jeffwass »

_37hw wrote: post #67
jeffwass wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity where are you located? Here in the UK his name is spelled “Adrian Tchaikovsky”, as well as his account on Twitter (@aptshadow), where aside from writing novels he’s insanely productive creating digital artwork (often including insect characters).

My apologies, did not mean to rename the man. I'm an ignorant hick from USA. Though to be fair I think that's his legal name.

No probs, I was just curious if that’s how it was spelled elsewhere.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#73

Post by AniseAbyss »

anyonecancode wrote: post #39
jpm_sd wrote: post #28

Really loved the Mars trilogy when I was a teenager. The clunky character development and invented politics haven't aged super well, but the stories are still interesting. I also enjoyed The Memory of Whiteness and The Years of Rice and Salt. More recently I tried reading Aurora (2015), but the book is a downer and a slog. Not recommended. Didn't finish it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_(novel)

Currently reading Ministry for the Future, which in some ways is a very optimistic book, but is still quite grim. Also, I'm thinking perhaps next time I'm tempted to read a book with climate change as the subject, I'll wait until winter to do it, rather than in the summer when the described scenes are a bit too easy to imagine by simply stepping outside. Read the mars trilogy and Rice and Salt as well. I like his opt…

Human history is filled with change, it's the only constant.

Unfortunately we don't see that when we're in the centre of the storm.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#74

Post by bsenftner »

kcartlidge wrote: post #71
bsenftner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly recommend Greg Bear. His first novel "Blood Music" is a unique take on an AI out of control, and he continues with a series independent of novels which all take place in a unified "future history". One of my favorite aspects of his future history is the combination of the bio-genetic, cosmetic surgery, and pop media artist industries to create transhumanist pop media artists, and spawning a transhumanist y…

Definitely Greg Bear. When I started reading grown-up SF decades ago it was with Bear, Bova, Niven, Pournelle, and the like. Back then Eon, Blood Music, and Ringworld (for example) were mind-blowingly vast concepts. As an aside (and purely because it's probably my turn for some hefty downvotes) I'd definitely agree with the comment elsewhere in this thread about the Foundation books being overrated. Almost unreadably…

Agree on the Foundation criticism. From what I've seen of the Apple series based on it, it's gonna be a politically correct mess.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#75

Post by Freak_NL »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #38

Seeing this on HN, reading the article and the comments, really reminds me of how much I respect KSR. His 2312 brought me back to reading hard sci-fi after too long not really reading much fiction at all for a long time. The ideas presented in it reminded me of a sense of wonder at the scope of future possibilities that had previously been lost under an ever increasing pile of marital, parental, and financial respons…

What a coincidence. I've just finished David Brin's Existence (2012). The edition I have has a few pages of 2312 at the end as a form of 'if you liked this, you might like…' advertising. I guess I should look into this book.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#76

Post by seer »

jsymolon wrote: post #41
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for Seveneves. I found it so engrossing that just thinking about it now I can picture the shapes of that chain in zero-G, and the unexpectedly long-lasting hellscape consequences of the very early reveal. The CB radio...

eh, 1st 1/2 great. 2nd half ... really falls apart

To be honest I think I really like “long jumps in time”. It’s like the author builds up a world that you understand and care about, and then it becomes a backdrop of this new world, which adds another layer of complexity. There are parallels to notice and explore, “how things might turn out” tales, etc.

The one other author I’ve seen pull it off was Brandon Sanderson in his Mistborn trilogy, though he does it 2 times (once for each book) where the previous one becomes “the legends” for the next one, with all the misunderstandings that this usually entails.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#77

Post by seer »

throw1234651234 wrote: post #42
renke1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Seveneves (I haven't read much else from Neal Stephenson, but I've heard good things) * Children of Time / Children of Ruin (both really good) * Remembrance of Earth's Past (even the fan fiction one is good) * A lot of stuff from Alastair Reynolds (House of Suns being my favorite) * Classics like Tau Zero, The Forever War etc. * A Deepness in the Sky / A Fire Upon the Deep Although not all of these are strictly con…

Neal Stephenson's earlier work has "more soul" - Snow Crash / Diamond Age actually has characters you care about and like, his later novels get increasingly more abstract, though even better in the technical sense. I think the only character I remember from Seveneves is the cannibal leader, that's it. "A Deepness in the Sky" was REALLY good. The Forever War was good for the concept. In short, yours looks like a great…

Remembrance of Earth’s past had some of the weakest protagonists in a book I’ve read. It also has this weird thing where characters plan for things and that just … happens. It was strange seeing book arching plans go without a hitch.

But I think it was incredibly interesting for me to see the Asian perspective on the west. I’ve read it more as an allegory of the different peoples of the world, shown from a perspective totally different than my own.

I do think though that you have to be a bit of a hard sci-fi fan to finish it, but the science-y ideas are very interesting. I think it changed how I view the vast cosmos, at least a little bit.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#78

Post by the__alchemist »

throw1234651234 wrote: post #42
renke1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Seveneves (I haven't read much else from Neal Stephenson, but I've heard good things) * Children of Time / Children of Ruin (both really good) * Remembrance of Earth's Past (even the fan fiction one is good) * A lot of stuff from Alastair Reynolds (House of Suns being my favorite) * Classics like Tau Zero, The Forever War etc. * A Deepness in the Sky / A Fire Upon the Deep Although not all of these are strictly con…

Neal Stephenson's earlier work has "more soul" - Snow Crash / Diamond Age actually has characters you care about and like, his later novels get increasingly more abstract, though even better in the technical sense. I think the only character I remember from Seveneves is the cannibal leader, that's it. "A Deepness in the Sky" was REALLY good. The Forever War was good for the concept. In short, yours looks like a great…

I agree, re The Three Body Problem. It's a fun story, but not hard sci-fi in the way Stephenson etc are. I also enjoyed the dive into mid-century communist China - it was a jarring, immersive journey into living-memory history I hadn't learned about before.

I think Diamond Age was my favorite overall Stephenson story in terms of both story and neat scifi concepts, but all of them were enjoyable. I agree on Seveneves chars all being forgettable. Dodge (The most recent one) had perhaps the dullest start, but I really liked the Dodge, Corvis, and Daisy characters.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#79

Post by the__alchemist »

throw1234651234 wrote: post #65
arethuza wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really couldn't get into Snow Crash and I didn't finish Diamond Age but I love everything from Cryptonomicon forward. Jack Shaftoe is one of my favourite fictional characters!

I know what you are talking about, despite being on the opposite end of that spectrum. Snow Crash / Diamond Age are cyberpunk/post-cyberpunk ala Gibson and completely different from Stephenson's other books. I couldn't even get through Cryptonomicon, and Jack Shaftoe did not strike me as a believable genius, nor his story. Anathem kind of strafed the line - it had SOME character development, and SOME action, but was…

I can't remember a single character from Anathem, but its world and some of the scenes are burned into my connectome.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#80

Post by the__alchemist »

arethuza wrote: post #66
throw1234651234 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you are talking about, despite being on the opposite end of that spectrum. Snow Crash / Diamond Age are cyberpunk/post-cyberpunk ala Gibson and completely different from Stephenson's other books. I couldn't even get through Cryptonomicon, and Jack Shaftoe did not strike me as a believable genius, nor his story. Anathem kind of strafed the line - it had SOME character development, and SOME action, but was…

Are you by any chance referring to "Bobby" Shaftoe the WW2 Marine Raider or his ancestor King of the Vagabonds, L'Emmerdeur, Half-Cocked Jack, Quicksilver, Ali Zaybak, Sword of Divine Fire, Jack the Coiner...

This gentleman, by whatever named you call him, is perhaps my favorite Stephenson character. I hated him after the first book... it felt too difficult to related to his decisions and mistakes, but loved him by the end.
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