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Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

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Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#71

Post by BurningFrog »

wpietri wrote: post #59
cracker_jacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty of increasing supply has directly led to increased home prices.

Supply increase difficulty has not changed recently. Demand increase has. So if we're going to blame it on one factor, it makes sense to pick the one that has changed and is easier to control. Less friction in increasing supply is also not an unalloyed good. You can look at the commercial office market, which is much less restricted and has huge boom/bust cycles. And that's before we get to the externalities of rapid…

> Supply increase difficulty has not changed recently

Sure, but supply keeps increasing less than demand is increasing, accumulating the housing shortage each year. This is a decades old trend, from long before AirBnb.

I think that supply increase is vastly dominated by regular old population increase in cities that refuse to build housing. I'd need a lot of convincing to believe AirBnb is more than a minor factor.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#72

Post by tptacek »

jimbob45 wrote: post #62
TechBro8615 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I can’t afford to buy a house? Do I need to get a loan from the bank? Do you also believe banks should be forced to lend money to people they don’t think will pay it back?

Get an apartment. Apartments are designed to best utilize space for those who need cheap and temporary housing. Houses take up far more space and unnecessarily contribute to sprawl when unchecked renting is allowed.

Lots of people rent houses long-term. It's a norm throughout much of Europe. Eradicating short-term rentals of houses is a coherent demand. Eradicating all rental housing is deeply silly.

I moved for a job to Ann Arbor from San Francisco back in 2001 with my spouse and our two kids. The idea that I should have immediately bought a house simply in order to start a job is risible. There are lots of good reasons not to own your house, even if you're going to stay in an area long-term (I ended up staying there for 4 years; we bought the house we lived in for our last year there, and took a bath on it, because buying a house you only keep for a year or two is usually a terrible idea).

I live in Chicagoland now. I own my house, but several of my neighbors rent theirs. Why wouldn't they? Residential real estate exposure is not a universally appropriate investment strategy. People live for decades in houses they rent; their landlords have property managers who handle upkeep, and the renters invest their money elsewhere. Maybe at some point they have to move houses; there are plenty of other rentals nearby.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#73

Post by dorchadas »

alex_smart wrote: post #61
jimbob45 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve tried to tell this to people and I get blank stares every time. If you take an AirBNB house off the AirBNB market and put it up for sale, it’s like you just built a house for that community. Even better, the market for houses dips lower because of the increased supply. I really wish rental housing was banned. There is no real gain in productivity from allowing rental housing other than some scummy landlord who l…

>There is no real gain in productivity from allowing rental housing other than some scummy landlord who lives three states away getting a bit richer off of the dime of the actual residents in the city. Aren't you completely ignoring the customers of AirBNB in this picture? Namely, the people who only visit the city for short periods of time? Also, it is not very clear from your phrasing, do you mean that nobody shoul…

> Aren't you completely ignoring the customers of AirBNB in this picture? Namely, the people who only visit the city for short periods of time?

Why should they be considered over the people who actually live in the city and want to build neighborhoods and communities there? Besides, they are taken into account for city planning -- hotels are zoned the way they are and considered in development talks.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#74

Post by BurningFrog »

stickfigure wrote: post #47
dorchadas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it wasn't for people turning that supply into AirBnBs to satisfy their short term greed and tourists, there wouldn't be as much of an issue. AirBnB has certainly contributed a lot to the lack of supply in major tourist destinations.

Tourists are people too. This really seems like an extreme version of nativism.

There are also plenty of non tourists who can't find regular housing who cram themselves into AirBnbs.

It's better than sleeping in your car.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#75

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

DoubleDerper wrote: post #21

The AirBnb "effect" has directly led to increased home prices. A home turning a profit thus becomes more important than how its guests impact a neighborhood and community. Ignoring or spinning the social costs is a primary goal of Airbnb's PR machine. It has made many neighborhoods more transitory (i.e. less homesteading, more short term rentals). Acknowledge the social costs to community and it's not surprising to r…

I'd say AirBnb increases travel by decreasing the cost of housing. It increases supply of an otherwise dormant asset. I agree that to argue that it has no effect on privacy of neighborhoods or crime is naïve. On the other hand, lowering the cost of international travel[0] enables more people to travel and to be exposed to more of the world. This is, in my view, a positive.

[0] San FranciscoMilan Oct. 7-21: $522 on Lufthansa

$22/night, 4.93/5 Rating: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/19010312 : $432

14 nights in Milan + Air fare for Eat in the AirBnb for, what, $25/day? and you've spent under $1,500.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#76

Post by saddlerustle »

trident5000 wrote: post #45
cracker_jacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty of increasing supply has directly led to increased home prices.

Theres no supply because investors are hoarding them. Blackrock is buying out entire neighborhoods and thats really the tip of the iceberg compared to airbnb listings.

No, there's no supply because local governments are permitting historically low rates of new development.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#77

Post by BurningFrog »

trident5000 wrote: post #45
cracker_jacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty of increasing supply has directly led to increased home prices.

Theres no supply because investors are hoarding them. Blackrock is buying out entire neighborhoods and thats really the tip of the iceberg compared to airbnb listings.

The causality goes the other way:

Because housing is not being built, existing houses are sure to increase in price, and so become a good investment for rich people.

You can't just do this with goods that are still being made.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#78

Post by tick_tock_tick »

trident5000 wrote: post #45
cracker_jacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty of increasing supply has directly led to increased home prices.

Theres no supply because investors are hoarding them. Blackrock is buying out entire neighborhoods and thats really the tip of the iceberg compared to airbnb listings.

Look up how much they are actually buy it's nothing. Institutional investors don't even own a million home. Blaming some far off wallstreet fund instead of acknowledging the failed local policies is completely misdirected.

https://prospect.org/infrastructure/housing/blackrock-buying...

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#79

Post by wwweston »

jwilber wrote: post #40

As this topic becomes more and more mainstream, I look forward to the numerous Twitter posts sure to come from Airbnb employees about the taxing social implications that come with working at Airbnb, how it weighs on their conscious, and and their ultimate decision to follow what’s right and leave. But only after their RSU’s have vested, of course. More seriously, I’ve been very disappointed with Airbnb recently. I sp…

I’m not surprised that cleaning fees are $100 — that’s on the order of something I might expect for the travel+labor time involved.

I am surprised that the market bears it for short stays.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#80

Post by dorchadas »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #75
DoubleDerper wrote: post #21

The AirBnb "effect" has directly led to increased home prices. A home turning a profit thus becomes more important than how its guests impact a neighborhood and community. Ignoring or spinning the social costs is a primary goal of Airbnb's PR machine. It has made many neighborhoods more transitory (i.e. less homesteading, more short term rentals). Acknowledge the social costs to community and it's not surprising to r…

I'd say AirBnb increases travel by decreasing the cost of housing. It increases supply of an otherwise dormant asset. I agree that to argue that it has no effect on privacy of neighborhoods or crime is naïve. On the other hand, lowering the cost of international travel[0] enables more people to travel and to be exposed to more of the world. This is, in my view, a positive. [0] San Francisco Milan Oct. 7-21: $522 on L…

> I'd say AirBnb increases travel by decreasing the cost of housing.

It decreases the cost of housing for tourists by decreasing the supply of housing, and thus increasing its cost, for locals.

> This is, in my view, a positive.

There's many ways where increased travel can be considered a negative such the increase in greenhouse gas emissions. I'd also consider if that positive truly outweighs the negatives on the locals of an area. Hotels work just fine, and are accounted for in city planning.

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