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Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

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Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sham job in the sense of "legit job offer you don't plan to keep for a while just to qualify" Fair enough. I don’t know the text of the law. Also, the entire county has a population just over 20,000; the city of Jackson, less than half that. This would cause problems for the employer who let it happen as well as the new resident.

It "causes problems" when you "let" an employee quit a job too soon? Edit: I know HN hates tedious back-and-forths, so let me just jump to the substantive point: any time you have a situation where you have special carve-outs for an essential good, you're not really solving the problem, you're just encouraging people to game it. See the past thread about enrolling in college part time to get health insurance.

> It "causes problems" when you "let" an employee quit a job too soon?

The law isn’t code; mental state matters. If you got a job to buy a subsidised house with a plan to quit, in a small town, that will cause you problems. If you provided that sham job, it will cause you problems.

Maybe they hired a great lawyer and never sent any text messages about their brilliant plan to defraud their neighbours. But most probably they didn’t, and that fact pattern would certainly be enough to warrant scrutiny.

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#72
I'd like to think that instantaneous change is merely the result of a system whose true state cannot be represented during the calm years. Permanent accumulation of durable objects is a fundamental problem. Whether it is money, land or power.

It's when their apparent value and their real value diverge that problems manifest. The solution has always been to let them deteriorate just like their physical counterparts. We have democracy with frequent elections to deteriorate power. We have inflation to deteriorate money. Where are the land value taxes that deteriorate land? Property taxes do exist but some states decided to freeze them, creating an extreme wealth transfer from the future to the past.

The housing crisis that makes the hiring crisis inevitable has been in the making for decades. If the price to rent ratio gets insane it will have to go down eventually, all at once instead of year by year. Of course it is entirely possible that people end up waiting half a lifetime for a correction.

If we want to prevent a crisis we have to do a little readjustment to reality continuously but people love to deny reality right until the moment it catches up.

Let's talk about a more familiar concept: Inflation. People hate it. They hate it so much they would rather see as little inflation as possible even if it comes at the risk of even more inflation in the future. The current inflation rate is a good example. It's high. It's definitively too high for a single year. However, when you look at the past 10 years it is just right. It's not high enough to raise interest rates because we have a lot of inflation to catch up on. We are like a student that forgot to do his homework and now has to do twice as much.

The housing market has a lot of catching up to do and when it happens it won't be pretty. Corrections are inevitable, we can only shift their date. I would argue that healthy markets merely correct themselves very frequently so the impact of every single correction is perceived to be insignificant.

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely different. Any non-dollar payment takes they employee's purchasing power out of the free market. Tying one's housing options to one's employment opens the door to similar abuses as company stores. Does a fired employee loose thier housing?

> Any non-dollar payment takes they employee's purchasing power out of the free market Where is the non-dollar payment? The law says landlords must rent certain units to people who work locally. The company is never involved except in verifying employment. If the employee wants, they can commute through the pass to Victor, Idaho and earn exactly what they were earning before.

The payment is the cheaper housing options due to employeers needing to fill units with local workers. The evil is that, once so housed, the employee is no longer free to take non-local work. Are these people free to quit and start a remote-work job?

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any non-dollar payment takes they employee's purchasing power out of the free market Where is the non-dollar payment? The law says landlords must rent certain units to people who work locally. The company is never involved except in verifying employment. If the employee wants, they can commute through the pass to Victor, Idaho and earn exactly what they were earning before.

The payment is the cheaper housing options due to employeers needing to fill units with local workers. The evil is that, once so housed, the employee is no longer free to take non-local work. Are these people free to quit and start a remote-work job?

> Are these people free to quit and start a remote-work job?

Got it. I see what you mean. No, they are not. Practically speaking, these jobs are not ones that can be done remotely. (But maybe another could.) More practically, absent these measures, those workers are commuting in.

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#75

Honestly, I think this is good for Tahoe in the long run. The NIMBYs who constantly block development are getting a taste of their own medicine. When they’re finally fed up with the low staff and poor service they’ll see the need for affordable housing.

Or do the unfathomable: Pay people better.

That's not likely to change the housing situation that appears to be the fundamental problem in this case.

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely different. Any non-dollar payment takes they employee's purchasing power out of the free market. Tying one's housing options to one's employment opens the door to similar abuses as company stores. Does a fired employee loose thier housing?

> Any non-dollar payment takes they employee's purchasing power out of the free market Where is the non-dollar payment? The law says landlords must rent certain units to people who work locally. The company is never involved except in verifying employment. If the employee wants, they can commute through the pass to Victor, Idaho and earn exactly what they were earning before.

In California we have a notoriously evil company called Derrel's Mini Storage. They have some of the highest employee churn, such that they have permanent now hiring signs at all locations - which are explodingat the moment due to the many people moving out of California - almost all are completely full and we have I believe more than 10 just here.

They hire teams of two and force the men to do the manual labor and the women to do the deskwork.

They force the team to work and live on site. As in, to work there yoy must reside there. They make this sound like a bonus - it's not.

Now, when you inevitably decide to leave you must first find alternative living situation, and another job to pay for it while working extremely long hours at this place (sometimes 7 days a week open to close if they cant hire a relief team- and they only hire teams).

This is beyond evil.

When I was about 19 I worked on a rock quarry in Comstock, Texas. We had to live on-site at the 'wetback shack' (owner's words, and most of the employees were indeed illegals driven over from Acuna, Mexico). This was because he wanted to start work at 4am and this ensured everyone would show up- not his only reason however.

We made minimum wage busting and palletizing rock, even if we operated heavy machinery wage didnt change. They charged us $3 per soda or water at the swear to God it literally was Company Store. We also, we found out when we got our 1st check, were charged rent to stay in the shack. I think at what 3.30/hr (one water per hour!) damn near nothing was left. We, my friends and I who had family in Del Rio, Tx, could leave, and we did. The poor bastards who worked harder than anyone and were generally shit on (the illegals) they couldn't leave. The people who were from Comstock outskirts where there were no other jobs or places to rent? They stayed.

This was in 1999.

Tying living in any way with work is disgusting and not in any way shape or form altruistic.

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#77

It's not going to change until the UI benefits and eviction moratoriums end. What person is going to go and work all day for less money?? Seriously, if you don't work right now you are getting UI, Food Stamps, and you don't have to pay rent. It literally doesn't not make economic sense to work right now for many people.

> It's not going to change until the UI benefits and eviction moratoriums end. What person is going to go and work all day for less money?? Or, employers could just offer more money. > Seriously, if you don't work right now you are getting UI, Food Stamps, and you don't have to pay rent. Note that there is not a rent moratorium, just an eviction moratorium, so unless you plan is to both get evicted and deal with the…

> Note that there is not a rent moratorium, just an eviction moratorium

We take this as a given, but historically this is actually quite unusual. It was not uncommon for kings in the past to declare a “debt jubilee” where all debts public and private were null and void. These were commonly called for both important royal events, as well as locally after natural disasters struck.

Obviously there are knock on effects to this. It’s very hard to give out loans if the loan is likely to get wiped out when the king dies, and the cost of any loan is inexorably tied to the risk of a jubilee. But given the scope of personal economic crisis in the face of the pandemic, perhaps we could have taken a page from history and provided some relief to our poor and vulnerable, rather than letting them go destitute through no fault of their own?

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#78
post #24

“ Those who beat the real estate curve and bought property for their employees to live in before home prices skyrocketed are faring much better on the hiring front than their comrades.” So we are returning to factory towns? It seems the only solution is the cap rental prices, which traditionally doesn’t work. Maybe the city should be buying at the housing and providing it?

The solution is to not interfere in the market.

.... which "works out in the end", but only after lots of people suffer from the required dislocations.

Is their suffering better or worse than the "distortions" caused by "interfering" in the market?

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#79

>> "Wilderotter starts his employees at $20 an hour." That's the entire problem. Everything is tied to pay. The reality is that nobody can get good labor, let alone good skilled labor, at 20$/hour. If your business model can only work by paying minimal wages then your businese model has failed. Labor costs, wage expectations, have gone up. That is a good thing for employees. I have little sympathy for anyone who thin…

I don't disagree with you here. But we need to be explicit about the implications: whole sectors of the US economy have a "failed business model" by this standard. In particular, the US model of restaurants is fundamentally based on paying minimal wages to almost all employees.

Re: Tahoe's hiring crisis is unraveling small businesses during its busiest season

#80

Honestly, I think this is good for Tahoe in the long run. The NIMBYs who constantly block development are getting a taste of their own medicine. When they’re finally fed up with the low staff and poor service they’ll see the need for affordable housing.

Or do the unfathomable: Pay people better.

I don’t understand the “pay people more” sentiment. It _seems_ like the correct and obvious solution, but it seems like it just moves the goal line.

Margins are razor thin in restaurants specifically. If you pay people more, you’ll need to raise your prices and that will offset the pay raise if it happens across the board.

What am I missing?

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