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Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

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Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#71

Post by yanderekko »

fxtentacle wrote: post #50

Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. There's a minimum level of humanity that we should extend to everyone. Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line. I'm not surprised that treating humans like cattle on their way to slaughter is hugely profitable. But I'm not sure we want to opera…

>Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line.

So is the implication here that humans are less faulty, or that there's something intrinsically wrong about an AI making this decision rather than a human?

If the former, then this is an issue that the technology will probably eventually solve. If the latter, well... that doesn't seem very justifiable, to say the least.

If Amazon has leaned too far in the direction of automation without oversight, then we'll see other firms fail to adopt these same practices. But it seems pretty inevitable to me that we'll see many more AI-driven hiring/firing decisions in 10 years or so than fewer. And if some sclerotic regulations try to slow this down, that will likely be unfortunate for consumers.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#72

Post by elevenoh »

peter_retief wrote: post #47

"The billionaire who built a corporate empire on the backs of workers." Should read "The man who generated wealth and jobs".

I think your should read is more accurate.

I do wish it weren't within a more pure/honest & a less broken capitalism (i.e. insider-hegemony) model.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#74

Post by jseban »

krige wrote: post #6
arkitaip wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that decades of anti-union propaganda is still in effect when individuals are convinced that working together with other individuals and pooling their resources to improve their working conditions is a bad thing. Of course when companies do it - through trade associations or lobbying - it's seen as natural and necessary for their survival.

Speaking from practice in a country where unions are a traditional thing, strong unions can and will screw over a workplace. It's usually about a show of power and abusing veto ability to stay in power until the place stagnates, loses competitive status and disintegrates.

This is exactly what happened in the recession in the 70s in Europe which caused a crisis in the industry in for example Sweden, and the reason why Thatcher had to push through the unpopular neoliberal reforms in the UK. Unions caused stagnation and the industry could not compete with the recovering global competition, from Japan etc.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#75

Post by hellbannedguy »

skohan wrote: post #20
sk4rekr0w wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that most propaganda comes from unions as they increasingly seek a political relationship with workers rather than the economic relationship that workers want. On any union site - there are terms like "solidarity" with images of fists raised rather than actual data about improvement of wages or working conditions. This is why unions get trounced in votes by real workers, things like Prop 22 pass with easy marg…

> This is why unions get trounced in votes by real workers, things like Prop 22 pass with easy margins, etc. I think it also has to do with the massive discrepancy in resources pro and anti-union advocates are able to put towards those races. Uber and Lyft invested massively in defeating prop 22, even advertising in their app directly.

I'm beginning to think working conditions will have to get worse, if possible, in order for the average worker to accept unions?

I find it sad.

Every job I didn't despise secretly had union affiliation.

Uber did buy prop 22. They used simple psychological ployes to pass their prop. (Yes--I know prop 22 was just about Independant Contrators. They will use similar tactics if we ever see an uptick in unions.)

More start-ups/companys will use it in the future.

Uber knew they could get desperate guys to go out and buy a late model 4 door car, pay all expenses, and be at the mercy of Uber.

America The Great is not so great anymore. An idiot became president exploiting the obvious. Yes--he went to race, but it's of his flock only went to working conditions.

We have a lot of lousy jobs.

Calling it a Side Hussle, or your ouwn boss, was just a beautiful ploy. I hope the fresh faced immoral corporate MBA stooge who brought that up in the meeting was well compensated.

I don't know very many people (Americans) who don't believe they will make it someday. They liked the little bit of autonomy Uber provided, even if that meant working for under minimum wage, after computing the car, insurance, maintance, and gas.

Driving for Uber was just going to be temporary.

The psychology is I'm an entrepreneur, and this Uber gig is just a stepping stone until I get a better gig. (Rap music playing in the backround)

The truth is most will never get a better gig, or worse--might go bankrupt, be fired over email, or just become Judgement proof after they ruin their credit.

Uber played into this mind puck beautifully.

They actually got those desperate guys fearful they would not be successful if they were just employees.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#76

Post by oblio »

golergka wrote: post #54
fxtentacle wrote: post #50

Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. There's a minimum level of humanity that we should extend to everyone. Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line. I'm not surprised that treating humans like cattle on their way to slaughter is hugely profitable. But I'm not sure we want to opera…

> Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. Why do people treat working for a company as something different from selling any other services or goods? If there was a law that limited your ability to cancel a gym membership or going to a different supermarket, you would rightfully object — it's not a government's business to get involved in your…

Because a company has tens, hundreds or thousands of employees.

Employees generally have 1 job (at a time) and 1 career.

It's really hard for an employee to screw over a company for good and trivial for companies to completely destroy an employee's career and life.

The asymmetry needs to be counterbalanced actively, especially since companies can have people on their payroll 24/7 to fight for more company rights. Employees can't afford that.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#77

Post by WalterBright »

fxtentacle wrote: post #50

Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. There's a minimum level of humanity that we should extend to everyone. Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line. I'm not surprised that treating humans like cattle on their way to slaughter is hugely profitable. But I'm not sure we want to opera…

People have historically complained a lot about firings not being based on an objective formula. Now the complaint is an objective formula is being used.

> WW2 prisoner camps

For starters, those camps would shoot anyone who tried to leave. Not the same thing at all.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#78

Post by tloup »

sk4rekr0w wrote: post #14
arkitaip wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that decades of anti-union propaganda is still in effect when individuals are convinced that working together with other individuals and pooling their resources to improve their working conditions is a bad thing. Of course when companies do it - through trade associations or lobbying - it's seen as natural and necessary for their survival.

I find that most propaganda comes from unions as they increasingly seek a political relationship with workers rather than the economic relationship that workers want. On any union site - there are terms like "solidarity" with images of fists raised rather than actual data about improvement of wages or working conditions. This is why unions get trounced in votes by real workers, things like Prop 22 pass with easy marg…

As a German I don't understand what you mean? Unions are always political, and leftist/socialist by nature. You can't separate politics and economics. And of course they are about solidarity, what else would give them the strength to strike for better working conditions?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#79

Post by herbst »

golergka wrote: post #54
fxtentacle wrote: post #50

Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. There's a minimum level of humanity that we should extend to everyone. Letting a known faulty AI decide if someone will have money for food tomorrow is way across the line. I'm not surprised that treating humans like cattle on their way to slaughter is hugely profitable. But I'm not sure we want to opera…

> Reading this, I'm so glad that in all of the EU it is illegal to fire someone purely based on a software decision. Why do people treat working for a company as something different from selling any other services or goods? If there was a law that limited your ability to cancel a gym membership or going to a different supermarket, you would rightfully object — it's not a government's business to get involved in your…

I personally don't care, but for all the people living from paycheck to paycheck in a low wage job this is the bare minimum of security they would want from their job.

It's important to note that the company gets help from the state shouldn't they be able to pay their workers. So it's not only enforced on the employers but backed by the state

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Dystopian Legacy Goes Far Beyond Amazon

#80

Post by southerntofu »

RalfWausE wrote: post #52
tdsamardzhiev wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if the alternative to working for Amazon is, well, death by starvation. People say communism falls apart once subjects stop having reasonably similar goals. Market economy is certainly more resistant to this, but is it infinitely more resistant? How far can we push inequality before that becomes an issue? Edit: That was meant as a response to the parent comment.

A radical thought: If i have the alternative to work for an dystopian megacorp or starve to death... why then not choose the third option: Go to jail while causing as much damage as possible? (Disclaimer: Only a philosophical thought)

Well you don't need a Joker-style nihilistic attitude to cause as much damage as possible to everyone without distinction. This can also be achieved in a meaningful way following the workers tradition of sabotage and direct action.

Hurt or destroy those people/structures making our lives hell. That makes sense. Just don't drag random people into it.

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