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Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

theregister.com

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Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#71

Post by WYepQ4dNnG »

908B64B197 wrote: post #68
WYepQ4dNnG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

late stage "startup" who had struggled with growth for years, they thought they needed to invest in building a more complex system and infrastructure, and they hired tons of engs (who actually had literally nothing to do) ... instead what they really needed was to focus on their customers and build them a useful product that simply worked. They spent months building and deploying their own k8s cluster: EKS was "vendo…

> but guess what, all their infrastructure was already running in AWS anyway and their product was already vendor locked in: RDS, S3, etc ... I laughed, but your response doesn't answer my question regarding engineers comp.

stock options, not great

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#72

Post by tomc1985 »

reedciccio wrote: post #6
moksly wrote: post #2

I think the articles headline is a little rude to Kubernetes. I’m by no means a fan of Kubernetes, especially not in non-tech enterprise, but the article is really about the unpredictable and rising cost of moving into the cloud that is owned by the big tech companies, isn’t it? Sure kubernetes can be part of that, but you can easily run into the same predicament without it. The unpredictability of cost is actually t…

Renting the hardware is not necessarily a cost-saving measure though: how much of the compute/storage capacity you have is sitting idle in your datacenter? That's the whole point of finops: you need to have full visibility into the usage of your infrastructure so you can optimize the spend.

Still amazing to me that keeping capacity in reserve is now demonized

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#73

Post by nycdotnet »

clipradiowallet wrote: post #58
ferdowsi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the application engineer side I'm not convinced that Kubernetes is particularly complex. I recently ramped up on it and found it liberating, frankly. Once I understood the basic concepts it was much more sensible than staring at a mountain of bespoke Ansible scripts operating on components I could barely see or understand. I can't speak to the SRE side; I can imagine the complexity there. But are these challenge…

> I can't speak to the SRE side In all seriousness, what other side is there? The SRE's role is to make sure you never encounter kubernetes. eg... you have a git repo and some branches - if you push to them, deployments magically happen. As a non-SRE, what parts of kubernetes would you actually be touching or interacting with?

bouncing pods and occasionally tailing logs in the case of startup problems is about it

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#74

Post by rachelbythebay »

WYepQ4dNnG wrote: post #67
908B64B197 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have seen companies failing because investing so much in building infrastructure, supposly vendor lock in free (or so they thought) that they lost sight and did not invest enough building the actual product: no revenue -> party is over. How was the stock comp for engineers at these companies?

late stage "startup" who had struggled with growth for years, they thought they needed to invest in building a more complex system and infrastructure, and they hired tons of engs (who actually had literally nothing to do) ... instead what they really needed was to focus on their customers and build them a useful product that simply worked. They spent months building and deploying their own k8s cluster: EKS was "vendo…

Did we work for the same company?

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#76

Post by danudey »

crmd wrote: post #75

As opposed to the annual corporate VMWare enterprise license shock and awe ritual we go through every year. Infrastructure platforms are wicked expensive.

We have the best of both worlds: we're migrating to k8s, but on ESXi just because.

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#77

Post by ferdowsi »

clipradiowallet wrote: post #58
ferdowsi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the application engineer side I'm not convinced that Kubernetes is particularly complex. I recently ramped up on it and found it liberating, frankly. Once I understood the basic concepts it was much more sensible than staring at a mountain of bespoke Ansible scripts operating on components I could barely see or understand. I can't speak to the SRE side; I can imagine the complexity there. But are these challenge…

> I can't speak to the SRE side In all seriousness, what other side is there? The SRE's role is to make sure you never encounter kubernetes. eg... you have a git repo and some branches - if you push to them, deployments magically happen. As a non-SRE, what parts of kubernetes would you actually be touching or interacting with?

> The SRE's role is to make sure you never encounter kubernetes

In my org feature development teams own the K8S configuration and uptime for their own workloads/services.

The SRE team owns the shared Kubernetes platform itself and the related infra/config (cluster-level config, RBAC, the CI/CD infra, certificate tooling, the secrets infrastructure, the observability pipelines, etc).

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#78

Post by williamxd3 »

bogota wrote: post #64
thanatos519 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently experienced this firsthand, in a company which owned no computers beyond employee laptops. The product was entirely built of AWS services created by a pile of Terraform spaghetti. It was only really understood by someone whose superpower was the ability to keep an apparently unlimited number of levels of indirection in his head. I hear they might need to move it all to Azure soon!

Terraform just does too much and is abused. Its great for simple config but quickly turns into custom modules to make things easier. Eventually those modules need to change and stuff breaks but you never know until someone trys to run it again. Then you just pray no one trys to manage their database with it. Additionally as its put together over time if you actually had to re create the environment it would never wor…

You know you can lock modules versions, right? And of course the environment recreation needs to be tested periodically if you have a disaster recovery plan.

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#79

Post by funcDropShadow »

reedciccio wrote: post #6
moksly wrote: post #2

I think the articles headline is a little rude to Kubernetes. I’m by no means a fan of Kubernetes, especially not in non-tech enterprise, but the article is really about the unpredictable and rising cost of moving into the cloud that is owned by the big tech companies, isn’t it? Sure kubernetes can be part of that, but you can easily run into the same predicament without it. The unpredictability of cost is actually t…

Renting the hardware is not necessarily a cost-saving measure though: how much of the compute/storage capacity you have is sitting idle in your datacenter? That's the whole point of finops: you need to have full visibility into the usage of your infrastructure so you can optimize the spend.

It is not necessarily a cost-saving measure, but it can be in some cases. In a project I was involved with, we came to the conclusion that we would pay AWS every three month the cost of the hardware that we would by ourselfs. I am aware that AWS includes hosting and services. Nevertheless that is a very big difference.

Re: Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report

#80

Post by scns »

dcow wrote: post #40
scns wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correcton: for TLS, Auth still has tbd. Cant edit since on mobile

Just refresh the page the edit button should reappear on mobile.

Thanks for the tip. On mobile means using Materialistic for me, no way to edit there.
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