Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 1001 posts

Re: How to Work Hard

#71

Post by tpush »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #57
nickelcitymario wrote: post #34

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. The arrogance! This is one of my pet peeves at work: When someone looks at another person's work and judges its value or difficulty. "That's easy." "That's pointless." Ugh. Everyone else's job looks easy and/or po…

The author is right. Gender studies, for example, is a pointless degree. You certainly have a point about not being quick to judge, or overly dismissive, but there are certain things in life that are genuinely pointless, even in education.

Why would a Gender Studies degree be pointless? Given the current landscape around gender and such, having more educated people in that area seems like a very good thing.

Re: How to Work Hard

#72

Post by dalbasal »

nicholast wrote: post #3

I know this is somewhat of a false dichotomy, but at some point I think PG's essays started to shift from being directed at startup founders to giving advice to his children that they can read when they grow older.

There probably is some tethering to whatever his perspective is at the time. At some point, YC was a relatively new idea coming to life and he was probably constantly thinking a certain way. Now, it's something that he's been up to for decades.

That said, I think there's more of a zeitgeist change than actual change in pg's content. Things sound different 10-15 years apart. A lot of things age poorly, often: idealism, stand up comedy... most anything avante garde-ish.

Clever people spoke highly of agile,for example, when it was manifestos and such circa 2005.

Re: How to Work Hard

#73

Post by goodlifeodyssey »

krustyburger wrote: post #28

>>There wasn't a single point when I learned this. Like most little kids, I enjoyed the feeling of achievement when I learned or did something new. As I grew older, this morphed into a feeling of disgust when I wasn't achieving anything. The one precisely dateable landmark I have is when I stopped watching TV, at age 13. I wouldn’t dare question Paul Graham’s accomplishments, but I’ve always found it odd that some pe…

I've wondered about the "no TV" stance too. I used to push back against it, but I believe there's something to it. Here's my current reasoning:

First of all, TV and movies have their strengths. Videos can communicate phenomena that are difficult to portray with the written text. They're also very accessible. However, all but the most low-budget shows and movies need to make money. Therefore, they need to appeal to a reasonably large audience. The economic motive limits the depth of the content.

Books can be written by individuals. Great books, and especially classics, are usually written for non-economic reasons. Often the author has a passion or a world view they want to share.

Books, as a medium, are older. Old books are filtered by time. They also let us learn about peoples who have different assumptions than we do. You can do this by reading about other cultures that exist today.

Books, as a medium, let one pause and think. You can write in the margins. It's possible, but more difficult, to do this when watching a show, listening to an audio book, or listening to a podcast. I like that I can listen to podcasts when I run or clean the dishes, but I grasp much less then when I read.

I agree that it's not enough to not watch TV. You need to discriminate regardless of the medium you're consuming, but I believe books are a better way to learn than most other mediums. Therefore, skipping television is probably a good idea if your goal is to develop a deep understanding of the world.

Re: How to Work Hard

#75

Post by sergiomattei »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #57
nickelcitymario wrote: post #34

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. The arrogance! This is one of my pet peeves at work: When someone looks at another person's work and judges its value or difficulty. "That's easy." "That's pointless." Ugh. Everyone else's job looks easy and/or po…

The author is right. Gender studies, for example, is a pointless degree. You certainly have a point about not being quick to judge, or overly dismissive, but there are certain things in life that are genuinely pointless, even in education.

The level of disrespect towards the social sciences in HN is just baffling to me.

Sometimes people study stuff for intellectual fulfillment. I haven't studied gender studies, but according to HN, if I were to study sociology I'd be an ass with a pointless degree.

Re: How to Work Hard

#76

Post by jerrre »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #57
nickelcitymario wrote: post #34

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. The arrogance! This is one of my pet peeves at work: When someone looks at another person's work and judges its value or difficulty. "That's easy." "That's pointless." Ugh. Everyone else's job looks easy and/or po…

The author is right. Gender studies, for example, is a pointless degree. You certainly have a point about not being quick to judge, or overly dismissive, but there are certain things in life that are genuinely pointless, even in education.

Isn't that always subjective? Pointless with regard to what goals/standards?

Is lying in the grass pointless?

Re: How to Work Hard

#77

Post by musingsole »

bumby wrote: post #51
nickelcitymario wrote: post #34

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. The arrogance! This is one of my pet peeves at work: When someone looks at another person's work and judges its value or difficulty. "That's easy." "That's pointless." Ugh. Everyone else's job looks easy and/or po…

I agree with the main parts of your post but how does the quote below fit into non-profit-seeking organizations? (E.g., govt, schools, charities etc.) > the profit motive is very good at weeding out truly unnecessary costs.

In my experience, nonprofits do accrue a bit of needless fat that is often justified by their compassionate mission. BUT, even then, only by so much. They still need to accrue enough funds to pursue their mission.

Re: How to Work Hard

#78

Post by borski »

newnamenewface wrote: post #32
Y_Y wrote: post #16

Doesn't this sound shit though? If Bill Gates is so smart why did he have to work so much? Did he like coding and management more than days off? If a life of hard work is needed to get you into heaven that's fine. Or if anything less would mean you and your dependants going hungry. But once your basic needs are met then it's irrational not to start spending time on all of the other things that life has to offer. I fe…

I'd go a step further and it sounds woefully disconnected from the joys of culture and life. For those it works for, I imagine that this seems satisfying but for the rest who work hard and don't hit acclaim and fortune (or at least not wild acclaim and fortune), they're going to have midlife crises when they realized they itemized away their youth... I'd guess.

The thing that most people seem to be missing is PG isn’t advocating for working hard just to work hard. He’s advocating for working hard at things that you love, because then it doesn’t feel like work.

He is also glorifying anxiety, which is unfortunate, and I think this essay stands stronger without those particular points.

Re: How to Work Hard

#79

Post by ant6n »

leokennis wrote: post #19

> There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You can do pretty well with just two, but to do the best work you need all three: you need great natural ability and to have practiced a lot and to be trying very hard. I'd like to add that it is more than fine to not do great work. If you like to spend a lot of time with your kids and tend to your vegetable patch, by all means only t…

That was also my first question:

Yes, but how do I work hardly?

Re: How to Work Hard

#80

Post by 1123581321 »

krustyburger wrote: post #28

>>There wasn't a single point when I learned this. Like most little kids, I enjoyed the feeling of achievement when I learned or did something new. As I grew older, this morphed into a feeling of disgust when I wasn't achieving anything. The one precisely dateable landmark I have is when I stopped watching TV, at age 13. I wouldn’t dare question Paul Graham’s accomplishments, but I’ve always found it odd that some pe…

Typical TV has low information density. It’s not a good way to learn. This is ameliorated in the non-fiction world in the YouTube era as there are so many detailed video essays now. PG grew up before then.

As far as fiction, books have told richer stories, though, again, things are somewhat different in the “prestige TV” era.

Post reply on HN