Live data from Hacker News

The Reign of Introverts Is Here

burgesspowell.medium.com

71–80 of 83 posts

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#71

> High-paying careers favor those with the stomach for deep, solitary work. Where can I get some of this high-paid, deep, solitary work? These days software engineering is ultra-collaborative, and I doubt anybody would say that doctors/nurses, managers, finance people, or lawyers are doing deep, solitary work.

These days software engineering is ultra-collaborative,

The rub is that it's both "deep, solitary" and ultra-collaborative. (Not for all, but for many, for some value of "deep"). That's what makes it such a demanding job, when done right.

Of course many managers don't care about / can't tell between "done right, or at least adequately right" or not, but that's a different topic.

I doubt anybody would say that doctors/nurses, managers, finance people, or lawyers are doing deep, solitary work.

Medical researchers, finance quants, and yes, (certain kinds of) lawyers all regularly do work that is, if not monastically solitary (or as deep as doing a math PhD) -- definitely much more focused than what is realistically possible in most open-plan, junk food driven, "just add the button the customer is crazy for it" development environments.

And in an case, much more focused than what their managers will most likely ever be capable of.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#72
I have a few counterpoints to those made in the article:

- As much as current developments have made for more accommodating work/social environments for introverts, I wouldn't go as far as to say that "introverts have the upper hand". If anything, I would say the shift towards increasingly digital modes of interaction tends to reward those with a flair for self-advocacy even more -- just think about who tends to dominate discourse in online forums/social media/conference calls. I personally rely heavily on non-verbal cues to express myself/gauge others in social settings but there isn't really a channel for that type of expression in digital environments. That in turn leads to me feeling like I need to be more verbally engaged despite that not being my natural inclination, which then feeds back into a spiral of mental exhaustion -> degraded conversation and thinking -> more exhaustion.

- The characterization of extroverts as shmoozers and social climbers and introverts as doing "actual work" is rather unfair -- in the past, I've worked with both "introverts" who recognized they could skate by just doing the bare minimum to say they did something in standup and staying out of the way of everyone else and "extroverts" who would actively drop by to check if I needed help with anything. Moreover, in roles like that of a technical lead or solutions architect, being able to clearly articulate and discuss designs is a far more important skill than being a code-cranking steam engine which by the definitions of the article are "extroverted" qualities. When it comes to implementation I'd agree that heads-down, interruption-free environments are the most conducive, but the further I progress as a software engineer the more I've come to realize that implementation is only the tip of the iceberg.

I think introverts as characterized in the article do have it as good as ever as employees, but that is still far from a "reign of introverts". With the growing trends of creator economies and self-employment, self-advocacy is only going to become an even more crucial skill set and mentality to develop -- I can anecdotally attest that the notion that dedication to your craft alone is enough to carry you is a fallacy, and I think those most prone to burnout/depression in creative and self-employed endeavors are those who don't anticipate the level of self-advocacy needed to break through.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#73
Unfortunately, the balance of power will inherently never tip to introverts for the simple reason that introverts generally do not want power over other people. We want power over our own situations. We want to be left alone. That social power over others is then claimed by those who desire it.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#74
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deep, Solitary work does not mean non-collaborative. You can, without talking to a single human being, complete design reviews, claim and fix 1000s of bugs, review PRs, update and ship documentation or releases, etc etc. Deep Solitary just means "asynchronous", "uninterrupted", and "self-scheduled" in this context.

No it doesn’t. Reviewing other people’s PR is a collaborative task, fixing bugs "reported by others" is a collaborative work, updating docs and release notes for "other" stakeholder's consumption is collaborative work. Unless you're building a house deep in the woods for you by you, you're collaborating with other people on different levels. Let's be honest, introversion is a gradient scale, maybe we've shifted a bit…

Exactly, those are obviously "collaborative" things that can happen by people working alone and without every seeing or talking to another person.

The definition of collaborative that includes "In person" is just wrong.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#75

> High-paying careers favor those with the stomach for deep, solitary work. Where can I get some of this high-paid, deep, solitary work? These days software engineering is ultra-collaborative, and I doubt anybody would say that doctors/nurses, managers, finance people, or lawyers are doing deep, solitary work.

Came here to say this. I picked this profession largely so I could sit in an air conditioned office and listen to music all day and not have to interact with people.

Now, I'm supposed to be some rock star.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#76
I think the article is referring to the way introverts vs. extroverts think.

The work is always going to be collaborative, that is a given and the purpose of teams, but the shift right now is that as data and tech becomes more prevalent, the old times when extroverts governed by mere non-technical skills is going to wane in importance, because everything could be automated and quantified, leading to less room for human BS to climb the corporate ladder.

As the article mentions which I totally agree, communication becomes more important as you move up the ladder. But here is the key: it is easier for a technical person to learn soft skills than for a nontechnical person to do the reverse.

That is why the combination of engineering + MBA is so dangerous. It is because introverts are not given/interested in the chance to rule, that we don't see it often. But for a future where tech is going to dominate almost every industry, a firm's survival is going to depend on introverts.

For those interested, I recommend reading the book "Quiet" by Susan Cain, it explains this pretty well.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#77
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this classification, it begs the question, do extroverts feel drained and demotivated when not in social contexts?

I think that's generally the idea. Extroverts drain their "battery" in isolation and recharge in social settings.

I wonder if that's the case... I'd consider myself an extrovert, but when I'm alone I don't really feel drained or anything, just kind of at peace and doing my thing. And when I'm with others I just get extra excited and motivated, I guess I do need other people once in a while to tell about what I've been doing or working on "when alone" to keep myself motivated, but that's about it, I never really get a feeling of exhaustion or needing to "recharge".

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#78

> High-paying careers favor those with the stomach for deep, solitary work. Where can I get some of this high-paid, deep, solitary work? These days software engineering is ultra-collaborative, and I doubt anybody would say that doctors/nurses, managers, finance people, or lawyers are doing deep, solitary work.

They didn't say those careers had enough vacants for every introvert.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#79

If the reign of introverts is here, then the introverts should hold enough power to get technology and/or laws that will actually stop spam phone calls and texts. Those things are brutal to introverts. The deeper you are in thought, the more damaging they are.

Or they could use the 'do not disturb' function on their phone.

Re: The Reign of Introverts Is Here

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope we understand that influencing others can happen without meeting them in a room on their schedule? If we do, then perhaps the general zeitgeist will evolve to recognize the superpower therein?

> I hope we understand that influencing others can happen without meeting them in a room on their schedule OK, but this marginally favors introverts, if at all. People will still need to be aggressive in building relationships and influencing them. Does this sound to you like something introverts would enjoy, even if they're able to do it on Zoom?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN