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Technology Saves the World

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Re: Technology Saves the World

#71

Post by WalterBright »

tigerBL00D wrote: post #32

In reality humans have a complicated relationship with technology. As much as it promises to save the world, technology is also what is increasingly over the last couple centuries threatening to destroy the world and our species. So technology may be saving the world, but largely from itself.

Do you want a nasty, brutish, and short life living in cave instead? Because everything better than that came from technology.

And even stone age man had sufficient technology to extinctify other species.

Re: Technology Saves the World

#72

Post by _Microft »

WalterBright wrote: post #68
julbaxter wrote: post #11

"Technology has become the idol of our society, but technological progress is—more often than not—aimed at solving problems caused by earlier technical inventions." "Interesting possibilities arise when you combine old technology with new knowledge and new materials, or when you apply old concepts and traditional knowledge to modern technology." Quotes from https://www.lowtechmagazine.com

I opt for technology rather than leading a nasty, brutish and short life.

I do not read something like that out of that quote.

Vaccines, emergency medicine, construction or farming equipment, all these things that make life easier, healthier and longer are not what GPs comment was about.

It talked about technology that was needed to fix problems created by earlier technology (think: someone has to write an ad-blocker because someone else optimized distributing advertisements).

Re: Technology Saves the World

#73

Post by freewilly1040 »

WalterBright wrote: post #68
julbaxter wrote: post #11

"Technology has become the idol of our society, but technological progress is—more often than not—aimed at solving problems caused by earlier technical inventions." "Interesting possibilities arise when you combine old technology with new knowledge and new materials, or when you apply old concepts and traditional knowledge to modern technology." Quotes from https://www.lowtechmagazine.com

I opt for technology rather than leading a nasty, brutish and short life.

This presupposes two questionable assumptions: that you have any choice in the matter, and that technology itself isn't the thing that is making your life nasty, brutish, and short.

Re: Technology Saves the World

#74

Post by handrous »

WalterBright wrote: post #71
tigerBL00D wrote: post #32

In reality humans have a complicated relationship with technology. As much as it promises to save the world, technology is also what is increasingly over the last couple centuries threatening to destroy the world and our species. So technology may be saving the world, but largely from itself.

Do you want a nasty, brutish, and short life living in cave instead? Because everything better than that came from technology. And even stone age man had sufficient technology to extinctify other species.

You've at least twice on this story borrowed from Hobbes to dismiss posts expressing what amounts to, "maybe our relationship with technology is a bit complex, and a mixed bag, and worth some examination and consideration", as if you were responding to posts advocating full-on anarcho-primitivism. Why?

Re: Technology Saves the World

#75

Post by phtrivier »

Half joking take : what "saved the world" (the deal is hardly done, unfortunately) was a mix of technology, incredible dedication, and vast amount of printed money.

Would medtechs have succeed if they were not sure governments would pay "whatever it costs" for vaccines ? Not sure.

Would people have paid Disney+ without government help funds? Maybe less.

2020 was probably better handled than 2008 here.

However, I'm conviced the healthcare workers would have made their insane efforts no matter what the policy ; and the governments might have failed them so far. We'll have to do better for them next time - they saved the day, in the end.

So, now covid 19 is on the list of examples (like Manhattan, Apollo, etc...) where "printing unlimited amount of money to have dedicated people solve a problem" worked.

When do we start doing that on climate change ?

Re: Technology Saves the World

#76

Post by Fordec »

admissionsguy wrote: post #34
blackoil wrote: post #19

Andreessen's posts are strongly biased towards what is beneficial for his position. I have read a lot of his posts since 2008 and before. They are intelligent and insightful, but in hindsight lot of them were not best advice for founders/readers but best for the VC.

Same goes for pg. And most other people, I suppose. It’s hard to forgo self-interest.

One's measure of these VCs changes quite distinctly when you change from viewing them through the prism of leaders of the industry to viewing them as self-interested marketeers acting as gatekeepers of a subset of wealth with the express purpose of their working role as the endeavor of inflating their own wealth.

They haven't gone hungry in quite some time, and it's really been showing more and more as time goes on and their memories of when they started out are fading.

Re: Technology Saves the World

#77

Post by carapace »

bttrfl wrote: post #63
carapace wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> history shows that every single global conflict Er, not to be pissy, but isn't that a sample size of two?

It's your right to be pissy. Let's drop the "global" then. I counted 18 wars with upper deaths range above 1M between 500BC and 1800AC. There were 29 of them after 1800. I didn't bother to sum the casualties. Full list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

Fair enough. It also adds to your point that the earlier wars tended to be a lot longer than the later ones, meaning the intensity of the killing has been increasing, eh?

FWIW I'm usually on the doom-and-gloom side of the argument (benefit vs. hazard of tech).

Re: Technology Saves the World

#78

Post by carapace »

handrous wrote: post #65
carapace wrote: post #61

(With apologies to those that have heard it before) Bucky Fuller (an engineer) calculated that we would have by sometime in the 1970's all the technology necessary to create a kind of secular utopia if we applied our knowledge to solving our problems efficiently . We could each work for two years and then retire having paid for the rest of our lives during that two-year career. This happened more or less right on sch…

Aside from the usual hedonic treadmill explanation, a lot of our problems with ever-inflating costs are due to competition for limited goods— especially those conferring advantage to our kids. Houses in good school districts, private school slots, various expensive activities that make getting into top-tier colleges more likely, et c. Two-income households? Now you're richer? LOL no, just more money lost to zero-sum…

FWIW Bucky meant that we could eliminate poverty and starvation, not that we could supply unbounded luxuries.

The rise of non-fungible tokens shows that folks will find ways to compete for limited resources, even if they have to dream them up.

Re: Technology Saves the World

#79

Post by carapace »

WalterBright wrote: post #69
carapace wrote: post #61

(With apologies to those that have heard it before) Bucky Fuller (an engineer) calculated that we would have by sometime in the 1970's all the technology necessary to create a kind of secular utopia if we applied our knowledge to solving our problems efficiently . We could each work for two years and then retire having paid for the rest of our lives during that two-year career. This happened more or less right on sch…

There are a lot more people alive today than in the 1970s.

True. So we work for three years, eh?

More seriously, you're correct that population pressure is one of the main problems that could derail a techno-utopian scenario. Fortunately, population seems to be leveling off.

I like to joke that the Amish are the "meek" who will "inherit the earth", as they are fantastic farmers and still have large families. But there's an element of truth to the joke: if most folks stop increasing their own population, but a few (like the Amish) don't, then in the fullness of time they would eventually, uh, overrun the rest of us regardless of any particular technological change.

Re: Technology Saves the World

#80

Post by thedogeye »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #73
WalterBright wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I opt for technology rather than leading a nasty, brutish and short life.

This presupposes two questionable assumptions: that you have any choice in the matter, and that technology itself isn't the thing that is making your life nasty, brutish, and short.

Before the industrial revolution 25% of deaths were homicide.
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