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Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

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Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#71

Post by globular-toast »

berkes wrote: post #54
mrtksn wrote: post #4

The strictly limited amount of BTC makes this into a land grab. First comers are entitled to the services of the real economy due to their virtue of being first(or lucky to be on the right place at the right tweet). Musk is right on this one: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1401251430015582209?s=21 Unlike fiat money, BTC is not an accounting tool for value exchange. Unlike actual land, it doesn’t have any intrins…

Isn't this the case for nearly all money-like assets? E.g. stock has very similar 'land grab' properties. This is almost entirely the businessmodel of VC and AI.

Not really because investors are committing resources to the business which, it is hoped, will deliver value greater than the amount put in. Merely owning land doesn't help the land improve and deliver any value.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#72

Post by elevenoh »

mrtksn wrote: post #60
bawolff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how all money-esque things work. First mover advantage is pretty extreme in anything money related. > I’m very curious to see an elite class whose core virtue is based on being an early adopter. How do you think the elite class became elite? How do queens and kings get their power? By having some ancestor in the right place at the right time take advantage of an opportunity before other people tried.

>How do you think the elite class became elite They fought and murdered the competition. Their offsprings continue doing that until they no longer had the intelligence or power and got exterminated and their wealth redistributed. This is very, very different than stumbling upon something.

>This is very, very different than stumbling upon something.

a) Accumulating capital & power (e.g bitcoin, land, property, influence) has always had a 'stumble upon' component.

There's no inherent 'fight and murder' evil to it...

b) Early Bitcoin acquisition required some level of computer/security/independent thinking competence.

Early land acquisition required some level of legal/defence/homesteading competence.

Aside: Writing 'very, very' made me take a closer look at this comment. Comments stating something like like 'very, very' pretty reliably tend to be flawed & indeed not 'very, very'.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#73

Post by mrtksn »

hutzlibu wrote: post #38
mrtksn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea behind it is that it is useful beyond the accounting. Gold has a very little intrinsic value. Decorative and tool making value due to its physical properties are there but they are minor comparatively. BTC has none. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a value, of course but it’s simply a value within a certain ecosystem.

"Gold has a very little intrinsic value. " Not really true, the only reason it is not used much more widely in electronic components, despite being superior to copper, is the high price it has, because of its function as value storage.

Gold is simply one of the metals in the universe and has different strength and weaknesses depending on the application.

It's not true that gold is naturally superior, in fact Gold is often mixed with other metals to create alloys to overcome certain issues. Pure gold is too soft for most of the practical uses like jewellery for example, so they add copper to it.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#74

Post by hutzlibu »

xxs wrote: post #59
hutzlibu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gold has a very little intrinsic value. " Not really true, the only reason it is not used much more widely in electronic components, despite being superior to copper, is the high price it has, because of its function as value storage.

Gold is not superior to copper for everything - incl. the most important one feature: conductivity. Gold (22.14 nΩ⋅m) is, of course, a lot less chemically active which makes it ideal for terminals, contacts, etc. (and mostly as plating agent), however as a sole conductor it's worse than copper (16.78 nΩ⋅m). Gold has worse thermal conductivity as well... and it's a lot heavier. That being said, it's still a very valua…

Thx, for some reasons I believed it was also superior in conductivity.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#75

Post by ostenning »

justblaze23 wrote: post #61
FreeTrade wrote: post #18

Sigh. Bitcoin BTC, at 3 transactions per second, doesn't have the capacity to support El Salvador's economy. Even if Lightning worked (it doesn't), BTC doesn't have enough capacity to open channels for users at a reasonable cost. Salvadorians will end up forced to use proprietary payment networks denominated in BTC. BTC is not cash anymore, it won't work as such. There are other cryptos that could work, we'll have to…

Yes. Unfortunately Bitcoin is not the ideal solution here. What would be the ideal solution is something like nano.org, fast transaction settlement, no fees and good UX through their community wallets. Alternatives like XLM, SOL, ATOM could also be an option.

NANO

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#76

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mcosta wrote: post #42
solotronics wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land ownership is a totally abstract idea anyways it's just been a thing for longer.

That is why mankind has waged war for millennia

> That is why mankind has waged war for millennia

Societies with no concept of private land ownership wage war. Nomadic tribes with no private or even communal land ownership structures wage war at the scales they can. Tying warmongering to private ownership or money is oversimplifying.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#77

Post by WA »

Nayib Bukele's (president of El Salvador) profile on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/nayibbukele

Just have a look at it. The profile pic with laser eyes. I wonder how much of this is motivated by personal profit motives.

Edit: The biggest thing of this is that every commercial actor MUST accept Bitcoin if a customer wants to pay in Bitcoin. See Art. 7

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#78

Post by JumpCrisscross »

FreeTrade wrote: post #18

Sigh. Bitcoin BTC, at 3 transactions per second, doesn't have the capacity to support El Salvador's economy. Even if Lightning worked (it doesn't), BTC doesn't have enough capacity to open channels for users at a reasonable cost. Salvadorians will end up forced to use proprietary payment networks denominated in BTC. BTC is not cash anymore, it won't work as such. There are other cryptos that could work, we'll have to…

> doesn't have the capacity to support El Salvador's economy

It's easier for San Salvador to disappear Bitcoin into cronies' pockets than U.S. dollars. For this purpose, Bitcoin's deeper liquidity makes it the best choice. Less cynically, Bitcoin has brand recognition. That makes it politically palatable in a unique way.

Bitcoin isn't a great currency. But it is a competitive store of value. El Salvador doesn't have a trusted domestic market of financial assets. This is an experiment in replacing a domestic market for assets with Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#79

Post by NicoJuicy »

FreeTrade wrote: post #18

Sigh. Bitcoin BTC, at 3 transactions per second, doesn't have the capacity to support El Salvador's economy. Even if Lightning worked (it doesn't), BTC doesn't have enough capacity to open channels for users at a reasonable cost. Salvadorians will end up forced to use proprietary payment networks denominated in BTC. BTC is not cash anymore, it won't work as such. There are other cryptos that could work, we'll have to…

Bitcoin isn't replacing USD ( although many would want to believe that).

Who would want to spend Bitcoin in a stable country. 4,5€ transaction costs for daily purchases is not what it's intended for.

Re: Bitcoin becomes Legal Tender in El Salvador

#80

Post by lagadu »

xxs wrote: post #59
hutzlibu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gold has a very little intrinsic value. " Not really true, the only reason it is not used much more widely in electronic components, despite being superior to copper, is the high price it has, because of its function as value storage.

Gold is not superior to copper for everything - incl. the most important one feature: conductivity. Gold (22.14 nΩ⋅m) is, of course, a lot less chemically active which makes it ideal for terminals, contacts, etc. (and mostly as plating agent), however as a sole conductor it's worse than copper (16.78 nΩ⋅m). Gold has worse thermal conductivity as well... and it's a lot heavier. That being said, it's still a very valua…

One of the most important features gold has is its ductility: it can be made into extremely thin, unbroken wires.
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