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Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

nytimes.com

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Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#71

Post by ttt0 »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #65
slowmovintarget wrote: post #31

Free speech is table stakes for a free society. Those claiming otherwise are playing with fire.

There has never been a society where this is true. Certainly where I live, in the US, free speech is code for "white men are allowed to say whatever they want" while the speech of other groups can be violently repressed without consequence.

Only if "allowed to say whatever they want" is code for "fired" and "violently repressed" is code for "promoted by corporations and media". I've gotta say, very interesting perspective nonetheless.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#72

Post by OrvalWintermute »

myWindoonn wrote: post #36
Nicksil wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Despite the sad loss of the ACLU as an institution that cares about civil liberties, we can remain hopeful due to other organizations like FIRE. You're just going to leave it there? What/who is FIRE? This isn't one of those unique words easily discovered during a web search.

FIRE is mentioned in the original article, including a contrast between ACLU and FIRE.

The civil liberties background of Harvey Silverglate, one of the founders of FIRE, is quite interesting. Apparently he used to be with the ACLU until they switched direction.

Source(s):

http://www.harveysilverglate.com/about-harvey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Silverglate

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#73

Post by TrispusAttucks »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #65
slowmovintarget wrote: post #31

Free speech is table stakes for a free society. Those claiming otherwise are playing with fire.

There has never been a society where this is true. Certainly where I live, in the US, free speech is code for "white men are allowed to say whatever they want" while the speech of other groups can be violently repressed without consequence.

Yet here you are. Using your free speech to spread your anti-white message. Your voice is very repressed indeed. Shame you can't just say what you really want.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#74

Post by 6foot4_82iq »

tpmx wrote: post #22

I like this idea: https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1401610476237197312 The ACLU should split into two groups: ACLU Sr, which fights for free speech rights, and ACLU Jr, which fights against them (Yes, I saw this when PG retweeted it.)

How quickly things change.

"In Soviet Russia, we too have freedom of speech. But in America, you have freedom after speech" -- Yakov Smirnoff

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#75

Post by ectopod »

IshKebab wrote: post #66
istorical wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a gay man, I would have been despicable for most of the past 100+ years, but the ACLU would have defended me anyway. That version of the ACLU no longer exists. This precise thing is why it's baffling that people can suggest cancel culture is only something to complain about if you've done / said something wrong. What is considered wrong does not always age well. Sometimes we ourselves are the baddies.

Yeah I think it's interesting to think what people of today will be cancelled for. My best guesses are eating meat, and doing business with China.

Driving.

When you are not killing people quickly in accidents, you are killing them slowly with particulate pollution. And if that's not enough, you are also making a big contribution to global warming, an existential threat to our civilisation. It is unconscionable!

This is what people will say in the future anyway. You can make your own mind up.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#76

Post by briandear »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #65
slowmovintarget wrote: post #31

Free speech is table stakes for a free society. Those claiming otherwise are playing with fire.

There has never been a society where this is true. Certainly where I live, in the US, free speech is code for "white men are allowed to say whatever they want" while the speech of other groups can be violently repressed without consequence.

Except that isn’t true. The only people being violently repressed at the moment are Capitol protestors who have been held in solitary confinement for months without even being charged. And many of them are white.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#77

Post by b112 »

IshKebab wrote: post #66
istorical wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a gay man, I would have been despicable for most of the past 100+ years, but the ACLU would have defended me anyway. That version of the ACLU no longer exists. This precise thing is why it's baffling that people can suggest cancel culture is only something to complain about if you've done / said something wrong. What is considered wrong does not always age well. Sometimes we ourselves are the baddies.

Yeah I think it's interesting to think what people of today will be cancelled for. My best guesses are eating meat, and doing business with China.

Maybe, but, I figure it will be things everyone feels OK with. Meaning, if you can think of "what's wrong" today, you're already off base...

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#78

Post by EGreg »

Freedom of speech is often a euphemism these days for capitalism of megaphones. I actually want to move away from celebrity culture and privately owned platforms, means of distribution, and audiences, and towards platforms based on collaboration, where people have to duke it out and address all serious arguments before the public sees it. It might take slightly longer but our society wouldn't be so divided. Individual people can't all be expected to be experts on climate change, vaccines, 5G and so on.

I give an extensive explanation on the economics of free speech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8HbvC6vqIY

I interviewed Noam Chomsky on it last week here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUPZ8rSESZo

And we are building it here (sorry for the bad design so far): https://rational.app/

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#79

Post by seoaeu »

this2shallPass wrote: post #39
kbelder wrote: post #12

I honestly think they were compromised from the very beginning, with their mission of "defending every civil right... except the 2nd amendment, we don't like that one." But they still fought lots of commendable battles, sticking up for people that nobody else would. I think that's what they've lost... they would be scared to stick up for somebody that might get the wrong people upset with them.

I have far from an encyclopedic knowledge of the ACLU and it's history, so I could be wrong. I had thought they have in the past done some 2nd amendment cases, and continue to do so. Their position is less strong, maximalist, whatever you want to call it than some other groups e.g. the NRA. They also don't see the need to focus a lot of resources on those types of cases when other groups do that, and effectively.

My recollection is they distanced themselves from gun rights cases after defending some right-wing group's right to hold an armed protest... at which one of the group members murdered a counter protestor.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#80

Post by [deleted] »

ectopod wrote: post #75
IshKebab wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think it's interesting to think what people of today will be cancelled for. My best guesses are eating meat, and doing business with China.

Driving. When you are not killing people quickly in accidents, you are killing them slowly with particulate pollution. And if that's not enough, you are also making a big contribution to global warming, an existential threat to our civilisation. It is unconscionable! This is what people will say in the future anyway. You can make your own mind up.

[deleted]
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