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Technology “Addiction”

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Re: Technology “Addiction”

#71

Post by karmakaze »

FriedrichN wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: I did not listen to the podcast, I merely skimmed the transcript. Is 'addiction' to social media the same as an addiction to heroin? No of course not. But it is evident that some people have great trouble to not have it control their life to a certain degree. If addiction is defined as "a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences" I think you c…

Very much so. All addictions even the chemical ones are happening in the brain. Whether the condition is present with or without the initial introduction of chemicals is moot.

I'm glad the comments here are quoting addiction to social media rather than technology. If the tech wasn't connected to real people providing input I don't think these people would care.

I'm probably an outlier (though maybe not so much on HN) that I'm more addicted to computers as an extension of myself and can easily go without touching my phone or social media for a day and much less so my PC/laptop.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#72

Post by bumby »

to11mtm wrote: post #53
grenoire wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, this is about the equivalent of telling somebody with a substance dependence (I think weed is likely the best analogue, with a weaker physiological dependence, that is) to just quit it . These devices are not inhaled, injected, ingested, but they are very much a tool in releasing hormones.

You're absolutely correct. A few years ago I went gluten free to see if it helped with some other health issues (it did, NCGS.) So, between late 2016 and the end of 2020, I avoided gluten as best as I could. Which all but eliminates most fast food and the majority of prepackaged foods/snacks/etc. Portion control became incredibly easy. I ate when I was hungry. Sometimes people would comment on how little I was eating…

>Which all but eliminates most fast food and the majority of prepackaged foods/snacks/etc. Portion control became incredibly easy.

One prevalent theory about why just about elimination diet works is because of this effect of an easy decision heuristic to make smarter food choices. That seems more plausible to me than a single instance of the gluten in a 150 calorie bun being the culprit (unless you have something like celiacs disease, of course). Regardless, I’m glad you found a regimen that works for you.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#73

Post by travisjungroth »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #70
travisjungroth wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manifestations of the addictions are certainly different. I'm really experienced in this. I've quit many addictions. Some of them many times! In a context that I'm not going to share on HN right now (find and message me if you're curious) I set an intention to face my addictions. I named six things that had pulled on me in my life. I was going to work through them, one by one. But when the time came, I realized t…

Yup that absolutely resonates. (And many of us are probably guessing the same thing about the setting you're implying as well and I have some things to say about that too, but HN doesn't have a DM function). How do you relate to the claims in the OP about: "For a lot of people, you can realize that the gaming is actually a coping that is displayed to face with social anxiety or trauma or depression." While I guess he…

Implying it's not a real addiction because it's a coping mechanism is so off. Like you're not really an alcoholic if you just drink to escape the trauma from when you went to war.

My understanding is that addiction is avoidance at its core. You're either avoiding the cravings, the withdrawals, or something else all together.

There doesn't have to be some other underlying issue. People get hooked on opiates in hospitals. Then they keep doing them to avoid the withdrawals. Doesn't mean they're avoiding something in their life. But it still counts as addiction if they are!

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#74

Post by bumby »

thegrimmest wrote: post #57
louis___ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. The " discover who really has the power to break these supposed “addictions.” (Hint: It’s you.) " rethoric is always pushed by lobbies for industries who do not want to be considered responsible for the harm their products cause. For example, MacDonalds and other fast-food producers have been pushing that in order to fight rampant obesity, people should do more sport, rather than have limited access to…

> rather than have limited access to deeply addictive, processed and sugary-filled foods. So individuals are not responsible for their decisions? I personally would rather not live in a world where my choices are artificially limited by someone's idea of what is "good for me". I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself, and willing to accept consequences of my mistakes.

FWIW, I agree with you but think it’s also important to recognize the devils advocate position.

>I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself

I think there’s a decent amount of evidence that humans aren’t as capable of making rational decisions, or at least not nearly as rational as we’d like to think. In the context of systems like nationalized healthcare, this can become a negative externality. If I’m responsible (in part) of paying for your healthcare, there may be an argument that I (in part) have a say in the decisions you make that effect your health.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#75

Post by hacoo »

twodave wrote: post #29

I'm no scholar or researcher, just someone who's experienced impulsive behavior as a regular old human. I'd categorize any activity that attempts to short-circuit the usual reward center of the brain as potentially addictive. Using an addictive substance or technology isn't in itself an addiction, rather the point we start making unhealthy choices to support our use (e.g. choosing to stay home instead of hang out wit…

I find this comment quite insightful.

‘Addiction’ is a complicated and loaded term, which may or may not be helpful. Sometimes, it’s more question of examining one’s life and making the very difficult choices necessary to be happy in the long run.

It’s also an insightful point that, when ‘addicted’, normal or moderate behaviors can start to feel meaningless - as if they would lead to an intolerably dry life. Trusting this will not be the case is important when making a change.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#76

Post by re-al »

dalbasal wrote: post #21
re-al wrote: post #7

There is an interesting point there - that new things are compelling in a way that can't really justify the effort we put into it. That radio was compelling in its time. I don't have a problem with using the word 'addiction' though. But the tech we have now is coming through much faster - there is no way that we can play with it in our 'natural' way (over years) and overcome it. I think it is an overwhelming change.

I think it's worth noting a difference between first & second hand perspective. It's generally other people (eg parents) who were critical of radio/tv/comic/etc use. They call it addiction. With technology "addiction," there is a lot of first hand experience. People consider themselves addicted, and can't stop doing X without external help or abstinence devices. If someone wants, tries and fails to abstain from anyth…

I think it is an 'operative definition of addiction'.

Words are what we choose them to mean. When I spend hours in front of screens, I don't feel like I have made the best use of my time and I feel like I have been somewhat manipulated in those actions. It does feel like nothing. To me its a negative feeling. 'Addiction' encompasses that mixed feeling, where on reflection I seem to have acted against my own interests.

I'm not even keen on trying to find another word for this - I actually want the negativity associated with a term like 'addiction'. I'm not a masochist, but I don't want to start justifying what seems like bad behaviour as if it was a good thing.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#77

Post by thegrimmest »

bumby wrote: post #74
thegrimmest wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than have limited access to deeply addictive, processed and sugary-filled foods. So individuals are not responsible for their decisions? I personally would rather not live in a world where my choices are artificially limited by someone's idea of what is "good for me". I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself, and willing to accept consequences of my mistakes.

FWIW, I agree with you but think it’s also important to recognize the devils advocate position. > I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself I think there’s a decent amount of evidence that humans aren’t as capable of making rational decisions, or at least not nearly as rational as we’d like to think. In the context of systems like nationalized healthcare, this can become a negative externality. If I’m responsible…

> I (in part) have a say in the decisions you make that effect your health.

Well then you (in part) become my master. No person has the right to be master of another. One doesn't need to always make rational decisions in order to be entitled to make them. This is also why I'm against nationalized healthcare.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#78

Post by twodave »

MattRix wrote: post #60

Was a bit annoying to see that Nir’s main counter examples were “Do you want Netflix to make less engaging shows? Do you want to make less engaging podcasts?”. I don’t know if anyone says they’re addicted to podcasts, but either way those clearly aren’t the most addictive things out there… and on top of that, services like Netflix could easily add in simple screens like “hey, youve watched 5 episodes in a row, would…

>modern videogames are way better designed and more compelling than those 20 years ago.

I may be in the minority, but as a 36-year-old I think the opposite is true. As a teenager I was very loyal to just a handful (3-5) video games, with one in particular (Subspace, later known as Continuum) taking up most of my playtime. In those days it was actually the community that made games sticky. I would feel as if I were letting real people down by not logging in.

Today's games just feel like another job. For me, this started with games like WoW but the feeling has matured since. There's just nothing satisfying to me about a grind. I still like the odd casual game and even the occasional complex game, as long as it doesn't feel too much like work.

Of course, that was also 20 years ago, so I've also changed a lot in that time.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#79

Post by blackbear_ »

rasen58 wrote: post #25
caymanjim wrote: post #5

This is a horrible format for providing the transcript, and a long and boring conversation, so I didn't read much of it...but from what I can tell, they're just trying to redefine the word 'addiction' to a narrow, specific, and arbitrary meaning. I've consumed plenty of supposedly-addictive chemicals, and aside from nicotine, none of them have the kind of pyschological hold over me--or rewarding brain-chemical satisf…

Do you have any advice for breaking video game addiction? I feel like it affects me a lot.

What worked for me was not eliminating videogames but using them as a sort of carrot-on-a-stick. A reward for doing what I should be doing, if you will. Playing videogames can be a hobby like many others, you don't need to completely eliminate that from your life.

You first need to find what you would like to do outside of gaming, things like reading, exercising, learning an instrument or a language, and so on. Then force yourself to do those things regularly, just half an hour or a hour each day. Even better if you find somebody to hold you accountable and nag you when necessary. As a reward for being "good", allow yourself to be "bad" and play videogames.

I work my ass off during the week, exercise, read literature, study Chinese and meet friends. I achieve enough during the week not to feel bad if I spend most of the weekend playing. The weekend session can be a good motivator during the week, but you have to be disciplined.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#80

Post by twodave »

rasen58 wrote: post #25
caymanjim wrote: post #5

This is a horrible format for providing the transcript, and a long and boring conversation, so I didn't read much of it...but from what I can tell, they're just trying to redefine the word 'addiction' to a narrow, specific, and arbitrary meaning. I've consumed plenty of supposedly-addictive chemicals, and aside from nicotine, none of them have the kind of pyschological hold over me--or rewarding brain-chemical satisf…

Do you have any advice for breaking video game addiction? I feel like it affects me a lot.

Being willing to do whatever it takes is the only way. If that means trashing your phone, you've got to be willing to go through with it. If you're not willing to make sacrifices to change then the addiction will just continue to run its course.

I say this as someone who handled it poorly as a teenager and young adult--I eventually overcame the addiction by replacing it with a more social hobby (guitar), after a lot of self-isolation and lost sleep. Trashing my computer would have been a far quicker way, and my life would look completely different today if I'd done it.

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