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U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

woodworkingnetwork.com

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Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#71

Post by kokanator »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #61
kokanator wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having a difficult time wading through current "shortage" links to find the original information. However, here is the gist. - The inventory of raw timber ( the type you see in log yards ) has grown too large. - Lumber mills are lowering the amount they will pay for raw timber as a result. As well as the rest of the end lumber market. - This causes timber companies profit per foot to drop. - The timber companies…

So you're suggesting what, exactly? It looks like you're making an emotional point based on some kind of national stake in resources. But it's not "our" timber -- it's the timber of some people who worked and invested in the capacity to cut it. If domestic timber prices are lower than foreign timber prices, making it harder for them to export timber just hurts the industry more . They're not sending it overseas to in…

> They're not sending it overseas to increase domestic timber prices;

This is EXACTLY what they did. You missed the point.

They exported at a loss to drive up domestic prices.

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#72

Post by kokanator »

greeneggs wrote: post #63
kokanator wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having a difficult time wading through current "shortage" links to find the original information. However, here is the gist. - The inventory of raw timber ( the type you see in log yards ) has grown too large. - Lumber mills are lowering the amount they will pay for raw timber as a result. As well as the rest of the end lumber market. - This causes timber companies profit per foot to drop. - The timber companies…

> The overall point is OUR resources were exported at a loss so OUR prices would increase. Forests are part of the wealth of our country. Letting a timber company send it overseas to increase domestic timber prices should be illegal. The same argument applies to cars, and to everything else we make or harvest. Should we ban all exports? (Please, no, it is a bad idea.)

I didn't make any argument against exports. Obviously international trade is generally good.

The arguments is exporting our own resources in order to drive up the price of those resource domestically. Remember, they didn't make a profit exporting the timber, they exported it at a loss. With the sole purpose of driving up domestic prices.

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#73

Post by yostrovs »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #62
nightowl_games wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should see what the Koch brothers have down to our oil industry and politics!

The Koch brothers actually are against all or nearly all tariffs, incidentally (like most economists).

It is indeed amusing to see people accused of being the very opposite of what they are. The Kochs, if anything, are against limitations on free trade.

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#74

Post by HWR_14 »

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #25
clusterfish wrote: post #23

Canadians: meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Trump's steel tariffs are still in place too.

If Trump ordered this it would be all over the news. The double standards are astounding.

Lumber tariffs between the US and Canada have been a sore spot since Reagan.

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#75

Post by lhorie »

kokanator wrote: post #71
Matticus_Rex wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're suggesting what, exactly? It looks like you're making an emotional point based on some kind of national stake in resources. But it's not "our" timber -- it's the timber of some people who worked and invested in the capacity to cut it. If domestic timber prices are lower than foreign timber prices, making it harder for them to export timber just hurts the industry more . They're not sending it overseas to in…

> They're not sending it overseas to increase domestic timber prices; This is EXACTLY what they did. You missed the point. They exported at a loss to drive up domestic prices.

Not that I'm doubting you, I'm just trying to understand this claim. Can you explain the motivation behind exporting at a loss? If the argument is that there's too much timber supply driving down prices to the point that some of the inventory is sold at a loss, wouldn't it make more sense to just cut less trees?

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#76

Post by rhodozelia »

vkou wrote: post #70
ncann wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still adds 20-30k when building a new house so not exactly a trivial amount.

Which in practice just means that the land didn't get a chance to appreciate by 20-30k. Houses cost every spare penny that we can save up to pay for them. Whether the pennies end up going into raw materials, or speculators doesn't really matter to the end purchaser. If labour and materials became free tomorrow, the cost of housing would remain unchanged, but the cost of land would rise to pick up the slack.

Thank you for a very insightful comment. Houses are worth what people will pay for them, and when you can borrow money so cheaply they are worth a lot! What else are you going to buy? Having a nice place where you spend a lot of time that is near things you do be it work or recreation is worth as much as you can afford to pay - a house in a good location saves precious minutes of your life!

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#77

Post by bioinformatics »

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #25
clusterfish wrote: post #23

Canadians: meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Trump's steel tariffs are still in place too.

If Trump ordered this it would be all over the news. The double standards are astounding.

Hey, no mean tweets. That's a plus.

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#78

Post by bobthepanda »

ericmay wrote: post #67
bobthepanda wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been recent developments in wood skyscrapers for the benefits you mentioned, so I would bet wood only gets more popular.

We don’t even need to build those at all… let alone with wood.

We don’t need to do much of anything, but tall buildings are fine, given that they minimize the land impact of a given amount of square footage, and denser communities have lower land footprint and lower per capita carbon emissions.

(European cities are plenty dense at moderate heights, but they also offer much smaller living quarters than American ones; a Parisian studio is in the range of 9-35 m^2 whereas an average Manhattan studio is 51 m^2, and most Americans would consider it small.)

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#79

Post by gruez »

kokanator wrote: post #72
greeneggs wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The overall point is OUR resources were exported at a loss so OUR prices would increase. Forests are part of the wealth of our country. Letting a timber company send it overseas to increase domestic timber prices should be illegal. The same argument applies to cars, and to everything else we make or harvest. Should we ban all exports? (Please, no, it is a bad idea.)

I didn't make any argument against exports. Obviously international trade is generally good. The arguments is exporting our own resources in order to drive up the price of those resource domestically. Remember, they didn't make a profit exporting the timber, they exported it at a loss. With the sole purpose of driving up domestic prices.

>Remember, they didn't make a profit exporting the timber, they exported it at a loss. With the sole purpose of driving up domestic prices.

What's the evidence that is their intent (ie. they're selling at a lost as part of some sort of diabolical scheme to increase prices), or they're just strapped for cash and selling to whoever is willing to buy them?

Re: U.S. moves to double Canadian lumber tariffs

#80

Post by imtringued »

hedora wrote: post #66

For reference, the base price/square foot of new construction increased 20% when Trump introduced these tariffs. He also tariffed Chinese concrete at the same time. The reason it went up so much is (like any other business), contractors and manufacturers need to preserve their profit margins, multiplying the impact of the tariffs for new home builders. It also allowed domestic producers to hike their prices (which th…

Yeah, it really is weird, there is nothing wrong with demand increasing and everyone starting to build housing, however there is something very wrong about making it harder to build houses than absolutely necessary.

Those tariffs made sense in 2018 but they don't make sense in 2021. Everyone considers USA an export destination where every country dumps their products, that means some degree of unemployment is unavoidable because these countries run trade surpluses on purpose and they won't stop them. Right now unemployment is on a heavy downward trend, which means there is no need for protectionism anymore.

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