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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#71

Post by jeroenhd »

philistine wrote: post #42
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

It’s undeniable that a whole class of ARM software was prevented from even being conceived because it has to pass the App Store’s Byzantine set of rules. On the other hand, I see so many software developers vehemently refuse to notarize their Mac versions. Notarization is far less egregious and it pains me to see so many straight up refuse to even consider it as an alternative to the iron grip of the App Store.

As a non-Mac developer, what does it mean to notarize a piece of software? Is that something you need to do in order to be able to run a piece of software these days?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#72

Post by dmitriid »

kstenerud wrote: post #31
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

I see it this way: Apple played the part of trailblazer, demonstrating that it was possible to run circles around Intel with modern RISC designs. We'll be seeing many more entries into the marketplace over the next few years, and MUCH greater diversity and consumer choice as a result. Sure, Apple did it for selfish reasons and they'll keep their platforms locked up as much as they can get away with, but the end resul…

> e'll be seeing many more entries into the marketplace over the next few years

No, not in the next few years. In 10 years? Maybe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26917136

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#74

Post by shsizbz »

fartcannon wrote: post #54
api wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers. This nails it. I want full control and the ability to run anything on my computer. I want my phone to "just work" and I never want to fuck with it or worry about what's on it. They are different devices with different roles. What I do wish for is open ARM hardware with similar performance. I am totally certain that it is coming now that Apple has…

You don't have to fuck around with it! You CAN just use it like a regular locked down device, and throw it into a landfill when youre done. The rest of us can get on with using the otherwise wasted power of all these tiny computers. Think of the waste caused by Apples profiteering.

Im posting this comment on an iPhone SE (1st gen) I got in mid 2016. I still get OS updates, not just security patches.

Whats that about Apple waste? Its people that waste and drive waste.

Id love it if I could load my own OS and do whatever on this little phone, but only if iOS itself was still locked up. I dont need to add even more worry about the safety of my “phone” (really portfolio of everything Ive done since Ive been online)

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#75

Post by gjsman-1000 »

philistine wrote: post #42
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

It’s undeniable that a whole class of ARM software was prevented from even being conceived because it has to pass the App Store’s Byzantine set of rules. On the other hand, I see so many software developers vehemently refuse to notarize their Mac versions. Notarization is far less egregious and it pains me to see so many straight up refuse to even consider it as an alternative to the iron grip of the App Store.

Really? I find this hard to believe, because if this was true, why doesn’t Android have a bunch of unique apps that couldn’t exist on iPhone?

Yes, Android does have some apps that can’t exist on iPhone, but I wouldn’t say that most people find them compelling or care about them. Those that do already have Android.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#78

Post by dmitriid »

fooqux wrote: post #44
threeseed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

> Google did a similar calculus, with a different set of values (if not an entirely different set of variables altogether) and came up with a different answer. Although it's interesting to see how their position has shifted over the years to be a bit more like Apple in some regards.

It didn't shift. Google had the same calculus with the same answers. Only Google never had the hardware, so AOSP was a way to make sure Android is everywhere.

There's a great Ars Technica article about this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/09/owning-the-stack... They all want to own the smartphone stack.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#79

Post by jeromegv »

caddybox wrote: post #70
threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. I think they might just survive without your business. And pretty sure it demonstrates that their formula of security and privacy over openness is the right one for them.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

The money is about showing that there is a market for people who do NOT want what this other user finds appealing. Saying "no" is as important as saying "yes" when it comes to adding features to a platform.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#80

Post by gjsman-1000 »

caddybox wrote: post #70
threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. I think they might just survive without your business. And pretty sure it demonstrates that their formula of security and privacy over openness is the right one for them.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

I think a broader point is that iPhones will never be the choice of people who want openness, and if the OP had a chance to talk to an Apple engineer, the engineer would probably tell him to use Android because the iPhone isn’t meant for people who need openness, but for those who want to trade freedom for an experience that mostly “just works” as they would say.

Also, Apple knows as much as anyone that terms change over time. Last week the RSA experts were angry that “crypto” now meant “cryptocurrency” instead of the historical “cryptography”.

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