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How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

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Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#71

Post by varispeed »

gambiting wrote: post #66
varispeed wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Plenty of times e.g. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140116/09195525902/uk-ma... You can Google more easily...

Yes, thank you for reminding me I can Google. From your own link - he said he forgot the password, which(I assume) in itself wasn't enough to prosecute, it was the fact that he eventually caved in and provided it 4 months later, so they got him on purposefully obstructing justice for 4 months. It's not clear if he could be successfully prosecuted for this crime if he never remembered the password.

Here you have someone directly sentenced for not disclosing their password:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-45365464

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#72

Post by kjakm »

hyperman1 wrote: post #64
hrktb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious what about Mailchimp make them illegal to use ? On the face of it they seem to have support for the required stuff: https://mailchimp.com/gdpr/

I was also curious, so I found this: https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2021/bavarian-dpa-... The core: ... transfers of personal data to the U.S.- were not lawful. So the problem is that an US company cannot be GDPR compliant, because that conflicts with US law. Which sucks for mailchimp but makes sense.

A US company can be compliant. They just have to host EU user data in the EU.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#73

Post by LeftTriangle »

FranchuFranchu wrote: post #52
LeftTriangle wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t have communist countries in “Latan” America because their industrial base and population expertise is even worse than the USSR. Not to defend the CIA’s actions, but Venezuela was never going to work out.

I don't think he was talking about Venezuela.

It’s a synecdoche.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#74

Post by buro9 »

This appears to be the thing that will finally take my sites offline.

I'm an individual who runs 300 forums. I do this because I believe that forums organised around an interest bring people together and help address loneliness. Further I believe that if you do that, you also help minimise the impact of depression and things like the suicide rate for middle aged men.

The forums are things like this: https://www.lfgss.com/ Cycling related. So that people come together, build friendships, and take those friendships into the real world through the interest - to go on a cycle ride.

I can't really see how I could comply with this bill at a low cost (the forums all run a deficit that I cover), and even if I did the paperwork side of things there are risks created that come with large and scary penalties for me... too large for me to consider bearing them.

There is no exemption I fit in... I run forums, and these are defined by the bill as being a regulated service.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#75

Post by TchoBeer »

ne0flex wrote: post #32
hwbehrens wrote: post #15

While I agree with their position overall, particularly with the ambiguity of "harmfulness", I think this is not the right tack to take here: > fails to acknowledge how actually harmful it would be for certain groups of the population to have their real life identity associated with their online identity No nanny-state-style government is going to buy this argument for a moment, because it requires a certain level of…

Agree that the way an argument for privacy is framed determines the support from the average person. I've heard a number of times people saying that they have nothing to hide, yet would not give my unreserved access to their phone when I ask. Then I try to explain to them that Google, Apple, etc. are doing the same thing except they're not asking permission and they just don't seem to care. The convinience of having…

I've had this conversation with a relative. To them, the difference is that if I know what's on their phone I might judge them for it or tell other people, Google isn't likely to do either.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#76

Post by [deleted] »

world_peace42 wrote: post #30

"when we force technology companies to make calls about what is right or wrong - or what is “likely to have adverse psychological or physical impacts” on children - we end up in a dangerous place of centralising and regulating relative morals" I told myself to laugh when I read this line. As it stands now, a small group of Facebook and Google executives determine what peasants are allowed to think and see on a daily…

[deleted]

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#77

Post by gambiting »

varispeed wrote: post #71
gambiting wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, thank you for reminding me I can Google. From your own link - he said he forgot the password, which(I assume) in itself wasn't enough to prosecute, it was the fact that he eventually caved in and provided it 4 months later, so they got him on purposefully obstructing justice for 4 months. It's not clear if he could be successfully prosecuted for this crime if he never remembered the password.

Here you have someone directly sentenced for not disclosing their password: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-45365464

I mean, we can be doing this back and forth for a while, but again, to quote from the article:

"Judge Christopher Parker did not accept Nicholson's "wholly inadequate" excuse that providing his password would expose information relating to cannabis."

So basically he said "I know the password, but I'm not going to tell you". That's obstructing justice.

My point is if you say you don't remember and maintain saying you don't, can you be persecuted purely on this one law. Because so far it looks like you can't.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#78

Post by hrktb »

hyperman1 wrote: post #64
hrktb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious what about Mailchimp make them illegal to use ? On the face of it they seem to have support for the required stuff: https://mailchimp.com/gdpr/

I was also curious, so I found this: https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2021/bavarian-dpa-... The core: ... transfers of personal data to the U.S.- were not lawful. So the problem is that an US company cannot be GDPR compliant, because that conflicts with US law. Which sucks for mailchimp but makes sense.

Thank you.

This looks like a pretry fresh ruling judging from the date of the article, good to know.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#79

Post by sys_64738 »

Is the Matrix based in the UK? I guess I don't follow why this UK specific law matters to anybody outside that country. I mean, if the Matrix is in the EU then is a UK law really relevant? If your website is not based in the UK then it's not your problem unless I'm missing something. Even if the reach of the UK was beyond its shores then the fallback is to simply ban that country's IP addresses. Sucks to be from that country but blame your government for draconian legislation.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#80

Post by Arathorn »

sys_64738 wrote: post #79

Is the Matrix based in the UK? I guess I don't follow why this UK specific law matters to anybody outside that country. I mean, if the Matrix is in the EU then is a UK law really relevant? If your website is not based in the UK then it's not your problem unless I'm missing something. Even if the reach of the UK was beyond its shores then the fallback is to simply ban that country's IP addresses. Sucks to be from that…

Yes, the Matrix.org Foundation is a UK non-profit. It leans heavily on Element, the company which set up by the original Matrix team to fund Matrix, which is a UK for-profit. So if the UK govt starts incarcerating the team who created Matrix because they provide Matrix hosting, this is bad news for Matrix.
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