Isn't driving on a tank full of hydrogen like super dangerous?
Time to watch some of these https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hydrogen+tank+b...
(not joking, it's useful to see worst case scenarios)
Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#72I have an acquaintance who has made a substantial fortune from energy focused startups (including a battery tech one) and is now working on another hard tech startup and they are very critical of hydrogen as a fuel. I’ve had superficial conversations with them about it but could never get a sense of their fundamental arguments. Is hydrogen a non starter or are they just protecting their investments with FUD?
Aside from the other points raised here, presumably there are safety concerns too - a hydrogen tank is basically a highly pressurised bomb; I'm not sure how you go about keeping that safe in a collision except making it heavily-armoured and hoping for the best.
It is a bomb alright, but surprisingly that is the least of its problems. The bomb can be made strong enough to withstand great majority of accidents. Of course it won't withstand some very nasty ones, but that rare possibility people could live with.
The problem with hydrogen is there is no hydrogen available, we have to first generate it and distribute it to cars. So far this process is much more expensive than generating and distributing electric power.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#73I have an acquaintance who has made a substantial fortune from energy focused startups (including a battery tech one) and is now working on another hard tech startup and they are very critical of hydrogen as a fuel. I’ve had superficial conversations with them about it but could never get a sense of their fundamental arguments. Is hydrogen a non starter or are they just protecting their investments with FUD?
Here a few major issues hydrogen would need to solve. * There isn't a fuel distribution system. The reason BEVs work is because everywhere has power, setting up power distribution is generally just plugging into the local grid. * Hydrogen escapes any container it's placed in. That's a pretty hard thing to deal with. Most approaches have looked at chemically binding hydrogen to something in order to keep it from escap…
> Because electrolysis is highly inefficient
Actually it's pretty efficient. According to wikipedia, efficiency ranges from 70% for the cheaper method, to 80% with more expensive catalysts. Theoretical efficiency is 94%.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like you're talking about distribution infrastructure, which is true but in my mind the biggest issue is efficiency. Storing and using H2 isn't very efficient, and current production techniques for H2 emit as much or more carbon as Diesel.
All true, though to be fair CO2 savings with electric cars also only range, depending on car and country (i.e. local infrastructure and means of electricity production), from 0% to 35% of lifetime CO2 emissions of an equivalent ICE car). https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life...
I wouldn't consider up to 35% to be worth of the disqualifier "only" - that's a pretty huge reduction, even if we'd like it to be much more.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#75Just to put this into context, my 2003 diesel car with a 68 litre tank can drive ~7-800km.
More context: My Hyundai i20 can go almost 700km on a 40L tank. (I don't drive efficiently)
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#76> “I was constantly checking the Nexo’s efficiency readout to maximise the distance I was getting per kilogram of hydrogen. I found that by using techniques from rally driving, such as looking as far down the road as possible, as well as tips I have learned from my dad for driving a truck efficiently over long distances, it’s actually possible to go way beyond Nexo’s official range.” Anyone have some insights on this…
It generally breaks down to don’t brake unless you have to, and know & use the performance characteristics of whatever you’re driving.
This might mean slowing down while anticipating stoplight changes, curves or congestion behavior so you can just keep rolling, not accelerating over the top of a hill or entering a decline with excess speed, leaving a good distance to the car in front and so on.
Also knowing the efficiency characteristics of your vehicle. For ICE cars, generally running in high gear/low RPM. Not going fast. Engine braking is also braking, clutch in or shift to neutral while rolling downhill might help. But obviously use engine braking on very long declines, so you don’t burn out your brakes. Prefer regenerative braking rather than mechanical braking in battery vehicles with this feature. This is generally done by changing speed slowly, which requires that you think a few seconds ahead. Don’t accelerate hard if your engine/motor burns more energy than if accelerating slowly.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#77What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.
It depends on how you define convenient. Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes, like a conventional liquid fueled car. If there were a network of hydrogen filling stations then driving, especially long distances, would be similar to driving a liquid fueled car.
> Hydrogen can be refilled quickly, in minutes
Only if the gas station has enough hydrogen at the right pressure. After a few cars it'll need 45+min to build up pressure again. The gas stations are really expensive due to the problems, plus there are more restrictions on where they can be placed.
Hydrogen for cars is great for companies such as Shell. For the foreseeable future they expect most of the Hydrogen to be created using non-green methods. Even if it's green, you'll need way more green energy (e.g. wind / solar). Way more profit to be had.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#78Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.
It has a similar relationship to fossil fuels as electric cars.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it’s precisely that; with electric, there’s no special product to sell you. With hydrogen, or ethanol, the old oil and gas companies can more easily pivot into simply selling another chemical product. With electric cars, the oil and gas companies are like cable TV in the age of the internet; their days are numbered, and they fear it like nothing else. (Also, governments have nothing to levy special taxes on i…
Asian countries like Japan, Korea and China are the ones who are still pushing hydrogen tech. None of these are big oil producing nations so the conspiracy theory does not make sense.
Plus the folks here probably forget what poverty looks like. In areas with no infrastructure the only way of getting energy is to literally carry it home for your stove or motorcycle. Gas is ideal for these cases. Hydrogen cylinders maybe? Batteries are definitely a no go to transport energy.
Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen
#80887.5km = ~551.46 miles