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Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

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Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#71
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that was enough to push it back above the 44.6B valuation.

The Alibaba and Yahoo Japan stakes Yahoo got were selling half of Alibaba stake for $8B in 2012 and $40B remaining in 2019. They sold Yahoo Japan shares for $4B in 2019. Microsoft would have had no need to sell the 2012 stake at the time. They could have possibly doubled their money.

Oh, certainly if YHOO or MSFT had retained the Alibaba stake it would have been worth it.

It looks like YHOO shares never went back above $45B, though: https://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-market-cap-over-time-2...

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#72
post #64

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

> We just drank the cool aid and clicked "install".

That's misrepresenting the search market's reality though. For most people, they never clicked install.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#73
post #64

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

Tabbed browsing and incognito mode were incredibly innovative.

edit - Looks like Firefox introduced both. But Chrome was incredible in comparison at the time. I recall thinking Firefox was no longer worth it. I made the move back to Firefox a few years ago.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#74
post #18

"Apollo to Buy Yahoo, AOL From Verizon for $5 Billion" from today's edition of WJS.

How could Yahoo possibly be worth that much money? It certainly not worthless, Yahoo still have great brand, nostalgic even. $5 Billion is a bit of a strech though.

Anecdotally, I use Yahoo Finance daily and Yahoo News (they have decent business stuff sometimes) a couple of times a week.

Yahoo Finance is a great product.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#75
post #73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

Tabbed browsing and incognito mode were incredibly innovative. edit - Looks like Firefox introduced both. But Chrome was incredible in comparison at the time. I recall thinking Firefox was no longer worth it. I made the move back to Firefox a few years ago.

FF had tabbed browsing for years before Chrome ever showed up.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#76
post #73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

Tabbed browsing and incognito mode were incredibly innovative. edit - Looks like Firefox introduced both. But Chrome was incredible in comparison at the time. I recall thinking Firefox was no longer worth it. I made the move back to Firefox a few years ago.

firefox definitely had tabbed browsing and private mode before chrome was released.

pretty sure opera had tabbed browsing as well.

i just recall chrome being very minimal, clean and fast when it was first released. plus as kreeben said, Google was pretty revered at the time.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#77
post #73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

Tabbed browsing and incognito mode were incredibly innovative. edit - Looks like Firefox introduced both. But Chrome was incredible in comparison at the time. I recall thinking Firefox was no longer worth it. I made the move back to Firefox a few years ago.

Revisionist history... Firefox and loads of niche browsers (MyIE2/Maxthon which I used in the era where IE was sometimes mandatory for site compatibility) had tabbed browsing.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#78
post #44

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

I'm with you on almost all of this, but can you explain why you think it's incorrect that Yahoo wouldn't have to spend a lot of money to keep up with Google? Google's origin story doesn't seem relevant to me, in that Google won because they made radical leaps forward in search quality, compute cost, and and compute scale. As well as company culture around innovation/continuous improvement, I suspect. All at a time wh…

> Google's origin story doesn't seem relevant to me, in that Google won because they made radical leaps forward in search quality, compute cost, and and compute scale.

That's the myth, but it's pretty far from the reality. Long before Google became such a dominant player, competing search engines had matched or exceeded its quality, compute cost, and ability to scale.

> All at a time when the web was exploding: only 19% of people used the web at Google's launch; by 2008 it was circa 70%.

Bingo. You nailed it. It turns out the search market was largely a distribution game. You wanted to be the search engine distributed to that massively growing audience, and Google did a great job of establishing itself as the first search engine presented to people.

> It seems to me that by 2008, there were fewer easy innovations lying around to make.

There's certainly been a lot of innovations in search since 2008, but nothing that was "disruptive". It's very hard to get more than a small percentage of people to change what search engine they use, and advertisers are not particularly interested in chasing that segment of the population.

> The way that other people have tried and failed since points that way too, as Google's market share is even larger now than it was in 2008.

Yeah, I really have to scratch my head at how people look at the empirical evidence and think that in 2008 it was a mistake to recognize the losing position competitors were in.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#79
post #57

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

Was there an understanding in 2008 that Yahoo... couldn't just "be Yahoo" going forward without falling behind / fading away and would have to really change dramaticly? I ask because it seemed like there were attempts but they were sort of fits and starts and meanwhile most of Yahoo still seemed like just old Yahoo... It does seem like a continuous failure in leadership at Yahoo to really change much at all. There we…

No, in 2008 Yahoo was already seen as a failed company.

The biggest mistake they did in the late 90's is to stop being a tech company and be a "media company" instead.

So in 2008 they were still big but mostly running on momentum they built during the 90's and a couple acquisitions. They had Yahoo!Mail that was popular, their homepage was still popular because some people forgot to try something different, Flickr that they bought and was the most successful photo sharing website until the got overtaken by general purpose social networks, and Yahoo!Japan that was hugely popular but was a joint venture with Softbank. Maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting... But they didn't have anything that made people dream.

Right before 2008 they tried to join the social bandwagon with a horizontal social network across their properties, but it failed just like when Google tried to do the same a couple of years later with Google+.

However, as much as Yahoo was seen as a failed company, Microsoft didn't get their Nadella rebirth yet. It was still an old evil outdated company, run by Balmer, mocking the iPhone and claiming their Windows CE phones with their tiny start button and stylus were better.

So Microsoft didn't look super sexy either. It really looked like 2 losers trying to band together to fight the cool winner that Google was.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#80
post #19

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

The answer to the puzzle is that the rule about fiduciary duty really is only relevant to who the beneficiaries are of financial transactions; it pretty much does not have anything to say about regular business decisions. No doubt some shareholders contacted their lawyers and were gently dissuaded by a legal reality check.

Shareholders did sue, and the threat of the lawsuit meant the board had to devote a lot of energy towards the Microsoft acquisition offer, which was unfortunately why the offer was a win-win for Microsoft.
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