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FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

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Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#71

Post by yissp »

awillen wrote: post #22
veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

Because our tax dollars pay for Medicare/Medicaid, so for those people who don't have private insurance, they're saddling society with the costs of their choices. In general I lean libertarian and agree that banning things isn't great, but if you want to make your own choices, you have to bear the costs of those choices. If you want to waive your right to government funded healthcare, then you ought to be able to mak…

How far do you take that logic, though? A huge variety of medical issues could be argued to be "your fault" to some extent.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#72

Post by nprz »

veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

Some how the democratic party is in favor of prohibiting the use of menthol cigarettes, but they're also in favor of legalizing marijuana? Very weird.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#73

Post by jolux »

lainga wrote: post #56
nanidin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a public health issue on the same order of magnitude as COVID-19, but happening every year: “Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.” [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

Is there an active or other ingredient in tobacco that makes its smoke more harmful than cannabis? Or is it the method of ingestion?

Nicotine is potentially harmful in a few ways but mostly it's the constituents of tobacco smoke, particularly nitrosamines: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20121116-can-we-ever-have....

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#74

Post by __blockcipher__ »

chmod600 wrote: post #67
LargeWu wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a more accurate way of framing it is "Menthols have been targeted specifically to black people, and also, they're even more harmful than regular cigarettes". It's definitely not "let's take this away because black people like it".

When paternalistic policies are directed at particular demographics, it is kinda disturbing. I mean, sure, there's a reason. But there always is, and it makes me wonder if a line is being crossed here that will set a bad precedent.

We’re about a couple months away from being told that opposing mandatory vaccination is racist because more black people die from COVID-19.

(I mean that seriously not as a joke...although there is some natural humor in it as well)

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#75

Post by meepmorp »

veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

You can still buy tobacco, just not flavored with menthol. The war on drugs equivalent is that you can keep smoking crack, just not menthol crack.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#76

Post by endisneigh »

Scoundreller wrote: post #53
endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder if there’s ever been a study comparing the effects of banning compared to ultra high taxation of products. I understand that there are groups that are negatively affected but is banning even effective in improving health outcomes in this case? In my imaginary world the tax would be extremely high and diverted to things in the same area that have the opposite effect: e.g make cheeseburgers more expensive and…

Higher prices do reduce alcohol consumption. The problem is for the people it doesn’t reduce consumption of. Plenty of people will happily spend less on their children or education or safer products or whatever to continue their dependence instead. There are solutions to these issues, but governments love to say “see, we have scientific proof that this tax is good for you”. Similarly, a common anti-diarrheal (loperam…

My point is less about the tax and more about the money being used to help in the same community directly using the tax revenue from bad things directly.

I mean we could just ban everything that produces poor outcomes even in moderation: gambling, smoking, certain types of alcohol, vaping, etc.

If we can’t trust our own citizens to do things in moderation then what?

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#77

Post by atlasunshrugged »

awillen wrote: post #22
veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

Because our tax dollars pay for Medicare/Medicaid, so for those people who don't have private insurance, they're saddling society with the costs of their choices. In general I lean libertarian and agree that banning things isn't great, but if you want to make your own choices, you have to bear the costs of those choices. If you want to waive your right to government funded healthcare, then you ought to be able to mak…

This is the view I am most sympathetic with. I actually did advocacy work to increase tobacco taxes but got frustrated because almost everyone in the field wanted governments to outright ban products, and as someone who believes in freedom of choice that didn't sit well with me. I advocated for governments to find out how much "cost" a pack of cigarettes actually inflicted (e.g. cost to the healthcare system from the smoker, if they smoke indoors to their family, from lower productivity and therefore lower earnings/taxes, etc.) and increase the tax to cover that price

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#78

Post by [deleted] »

jakeva wrote: post #51
nanidin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a public health issue on the same order of magnitude as COVID-19, but happening every year: “Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.” [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

But it's not. Smoking isn't contagious.

[deleted]

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#80

Post by BurningFrog »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #21
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the government wanting to protect the health of folks (or if you're a cynic like me, making sure that citizens are productive for longer and don't use as many healthcare resources) but this feels super paternalistic. Why not just dramatically increase the taxes so people can still choose to pay a high price if they want to?

1. Smoking citizens are - on average - productive until retirement, but use up much less pension money. So the cynical policy would be the opposite.

2. When you increase taxes you get smuggling and illegal dealing with all the violence it brings.

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