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Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

span.health

71–80 of 111 posts

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#71

OT: "Heart Rate Variability (HRV) gives us an idea about the state of our autonomic nervous system" This answered a big medical doubt I have had for the past week. For ages my heart rate has been at a stable 95-105 resting BPM with very little variability, which is quite high and understandable given my low fitness. I've recently radically changed my diet, and in 2 weeks my resting BPM has gone down to around 65 (!),…

Would you mind sharing your diet changes?

Gone 100% carnivore

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#72
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epidemiology strikes again! I watch a lot of videos on nutrition and researchers often say that randomized control trials are too expensive so we need to rely on epidemiology despite its flaws. What I find crazy is that nations around the world collaborate and spend billions of dollars building a particle accelerator and yet we can't seem to find money to research something that affects every human every day of their…

It's not just a money issue. It would be impractical and unethical to confine study subjects in controlled environments for long periods of time. That's what we would have to do in order to gather reliable data and eliminate confounding factors. Most human nutrition studies are only observational and barely a step above junk science. Don't take them too seriously.

I'm not so confident RCTs of nutrition are unethical. The data are too damn valuable for society to ignore. Perhaps participants could be informed and willing to partake in the challenge trials, which although these participants might not be reflective of the overall population, we can get a better sense than correlational studies.

Humans are incredible explorers, self-sacrificing for the greater (perceived) good. We should consider continuing our legacy by understanding ourselves better through rigorous science. (And hopefully end the historical legacy of making thousands of other species extinct via our exploration.)

I believe the Journal of Controversial Idea (https://journalofcontroversialideas.org/) will explore some of these topics, shortly.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#73
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epidemiology strikes again! I watch a lot of videos on nutrition and researchers often say that randomized control trials are too expensive so we need to rely on epidemiology despite its flaws. What I find crazy is that nations around the world collaborate and spend billions of dollars building a particle accelerator and yet we can't seem to find money to research something that affects every human every day of their…

It's not just a money issue. It would be impractical and unethical to confine study subjects in controlled environments for long periods of time. That's what we would have to do in order to gather reliable data and eliminate confounding factors. Most human nutrition studies are only observational and barely a step above junk science. Don't take them too seriously.

There are ways to at least mitigate some of those challenges and achieve a meaningful RCT without locking people up. Encouragement designs, for example: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1008045618501

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#74

OT: "Heart Rate Variability (HRV) gives us an idea about the state of our autonomic nervous system" This answered a big medical doubt I have had for the past week. For ages my heart rate has been at a stable 95-105 resting BPM with very little variability, which is quite high and understandable given my low fitness. I've recently radically changed my diet, and in 2 weeks my resting BPM has gone down to around 65 (!),…

HRV describes the steadiness (or not) of the timing between beats, as measured in milliseconds. It sounds like you are describing something else here, like your resting rate and how much/quickly it responds to exercise. For an example of HRV, let's say you're showing a heart rate of exactly 95 BPM for a one minute period, which means an average of one beat every 0.6316 second. If the actual beats were very close to o…

Ah good, thanks for the clarification.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#75

They close with this: However, a more critical review[0] of the epidemiological data that took into account genetic variants which impact the effect of alcohol intake on longevity shows that the described J-shaped relationship is not as robust as once thought. In conclusion the review simply states: The optimal level of alcohol intake for health and longevity is zero [0] https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/49/3/3…

I'm not sure I understand the conclusions of that paper. The ADH1B variant is associated with lower alcohol consumption and also with lower cardiovascular risk but within that population there is still a J-curve relationship between cardiovascular disease and alcohol consumption.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#76
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epidemiology strikes again! I watch a lot of videos on nutrition and researchers often say that randomized control trials are too expensive so we need to rely on epidemiology despite its flaws. What I find crazy is that nations around the world collaborate and spend billions of dollars building a particle accelerator and yet we can't seem to find money to research something that affects every human every day of their…

I guess that is because particles in the accelerator are not alive, so you can accelerate anyway you want. Do you really want to round up a group of seniors and gives them different doses of alcohol and see how much you can accelerate their demise?

I know a few seniors who'd be down for that!

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a non sequitur ("The optimal level of alcohol intake for health and longevity is zero"). All I see in the article you referred (or the original article above) are several (valid) questions about the J shaped association, like confounding factors and survival bias. But these aren't evidence that the optimal level is zero. Merely challenging/speculating about the opposite view is not evidence. Also, as…

Did you read the studies (cited in that review) that do Mendelian randomization? They seem fairly conclusive in favor of the view that the optimal alcohol intake is zero.

I looked at the paper but I don't understand how they got to that conclusion. There is still a J-shaped relationship between alcohol consumption and coronary heart disease outcomes. Not questioning the conclusion I just don't understand how you get to it from their data (due to my own ignorance).

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damnit. Well, it's that or lots of 5-6 hour nights, or worse. Or bad hangovers and other weird shit from sleeping pills. Maybe time to get a sleep-tracker watch.

Do you drink a lot of coffee or other caffeinated drinks, especially later in the day? I used to think caffeine didn't have much affect on my sleep, until I cut it out. Old habits die hard, but I just drink decaf coffee now and am getting better sleep then I can remember.

~2 cups of coffee probably 5-6 days a week, sometimes tea instead, rarely past noon and never past ~2:00PM (I only drink it as late as, say, 1:00PM if I happen not to realize how late it is). Maybe one soda per month, tops, don't really pay attention to when I have those, though. I'd guess afternoon/evening mostly, but it's rare enough that I doubt it's doing anything meaningful to my overall sleep-trends.

I could try cutting it out, but I've had trouble falling asleep my entire life, and my average annual caffeine intake was very low until my mid-teens. I'm actually much better about sleep now than I used to be, even without meds. Worth a shot, though, I guess. I'd been thinking about dropping my intake to one cup per day, alternating coffee and green tea (which would represent a large increase in my consumption of green tea) anyway. Hell, at lower volume I could justify buying the expensive, low-package-weight, really, really good beans, so the flavor of the coffee I'm drinking would improve, though I might have to group coffee-days rather than alternate them, to avoid issues with beans going stale. Seems like ~halving my caffeine would be an OK start.

Sigh. Guess I'm going to be spending a lot of money on sparkling water, just like when I kicked my soda habit :-)

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#79
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epidemiology strikes again! I watch a lot of videos on nutrition and researchers often say that randomized control trials are too expensive so we need to rely on epidemiology despite its flaws. What I find crazy is that nations around the world collaborate and spend billions of dollars building a particle accelerator and yet we can't seem to find money to research something that affects every human every day of their…

It's not just a money issue. It would be impractical and unethical to confine study subjects in controlled environments for long periods of time. That's what we would have to do in order to gather reliable data and eliminate confounding factors. Most human nutrition studies are only observational and barely a step above junk science. Don't take them too seriously.

Randomized control trials are done all the time. They can and are done ethically. I don't know where you people are getting the idea that RCTs are unethical.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been largely alcohol free since the new year. Prior to that I thought alcohol helped me rest. Now even one or two glasses of beer or wine messes up my sleep. The contrast helps me understand it better. Of course this anecdote shouldn’t be construed as robust data....

I've been working on switching most drinking for weed—for health reasons. Seriously. It's the best and lowest-side-effect sleep aid I've used. Hopefully it's not secretly doing horrible things to me, but my sleep quality's been amazing since I started to take a little a couple nights a week. Most consistently-decent sleep of my life.

I haven’t replaced it with anything else. At some point I will try to kick caffeine but one vice at a time. :-)
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