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Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

drewdevault.com

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Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#71

Post by yui43 »

knorker wrote: post #64
cle wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what do we do if someone has a large stake? Ignore their arguments? Should we do the same if they have no stake and are criticizing it? How much stake is enough, given a particular argument, to consider it on its own merits and not reject it based on cui bono? If someone doesn't disclose their stake, should we assume the worst, the best, the average? What if they're lying? (I have no stake in anything crypto rela…

Not ignore it, but take it into consideration. If I told you I earned $1M a year, you should keep that in mind when I say that we should lower income taxes for the betterment of the poor. It's a suspiciously self-serving conclusion for me to have, wouldn't you say?

What a weird opinion to hold in a society totally dominated by incentive. Serving yourself is the entire point since we have structured nearly all of human existence around incentive instead of command. Discounting the argument that it would help the poor (objectively) because it helps the person making the suggestion is like being angry at the sky for being blue. The incentives produced the outcome and should in no way surprise you.

That’s why people who act selflessly are notable. You’ve got this backwards. Selflessness is notable. Selfishness is par until all of Maslow’s is handed to you free of charge. Noticing someone is advocating for an improvement to their situation, even disingenuously, is equally pointless with that in mind.

People do things in their interest because that’s how we have built human civilizations that pay any respect to the concept of freedom. If the suggestion benefits others, maybe go with it? Or build a civilization where everyone can be selfless all the time and have no self-serving motives; that sounds pretty great until you get to the “how to direct an economy” part of the equation.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#72

Post by shkkmo »

shrubble wrote: post #13
tima101 wrote: post #7

> Cryptocurrency is one of the worst inventions of the 21st century. I am ashamed to share an industry with this exploitative grift. It has failed to be a useful currency, invented a new class of internet abuse, further enriched the rich, wasted staggering amounts of electricity, hastened climate change, ruined hundreds of otherwise promising projects, provided a climate for hundreds of scams to flourish, created sho…

Now do the Federal Reserve. 1955 Tappan Zee bridge: $55 million. 2013 Tappan Zee bridge: $4 billion for basically the same bridge. Due in part to the destruction of the USD caused by the Fed.

If you are going to edit your comments, it is polite to indicate what parts have been added/changed.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#73

Post by IiydAbITMvJkqKf »

svachalek wrote: post #46
IiydAbITMvJkqKf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulated, cheap, mostly environmentally friendly currencies exist, they're called USD, EUR, etc.

A lot of people are not comfortable with the fact that a secretive club of bankers can produce more of these at will, and give them to who they like. The moral hazard here is off the charts, and it's too much to expect that they won't keep producing more and more until it's worthless as has happened to every fiat currency in history. See the current prices of stocks, bonds, real estate, and education for examples, an…

Bitcoin does not solve this problem at all, since 71% of the global hashrate is concentrated in China [1]. Instead of a currently controlled by central bankers, you get a currency which can be controlled at any moment by a totalitarian government which currently attempts to expand its territory using military means.

Ironically this is also why gold-backed currencies are not an acceptable replacement for dollars either - just substitute China with Australia (which is of course politically a far more benign country than China, but you're still outsourcing control of your currency).

The problem of currency stability is real, but crypto is not a solution at all.

[1] https://cbeci.org/mining_map/

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#74

Post by eric_cc »

shkkmo wrote: post #61
eric_cc wrote: post #50

> For my part, I held LOL ouch. Selling prior to 2016 must sting. It makes sense that somebody who made this mistake would be bitter. This guys take of: > It has failed to be a useful currency, invented a new class of internet abuse, further enriched the rich, wasted staggering amounts of electricity, hastened climate change, ruined hundreds of otherwise promising projects, provided a climate for hundreds of scams to…

Seems completely on the mark to me. Your dismissals don't seem appropriate to HN. Please name one good thing crypto helps people accomplish that doesn't involve breaking the law (or speculation.)

off the top of my head: DeFi, NFT's, data storage, services for the bankless, decentralized metaverses, insurance, synthetics, music streaming, video streaming, social networks, DAO's, social money

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#75

Post by ddevault »

marcantonio wrote: post #25

Keep in mind that this is not an objective take, fraud is destroying his business. He’s conflating all crypto with PoW based systems. A more accurate title would be "Bitcoin is Making My Life Complicated”.

Author here. It's hardly ruining my business, it's just a nuisance. I have long denounced cryptocurrencies since well before this incident, including on HN:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#76

Post by reducesuffering »

marcantonio wrote: post #25

Keep in mind that this is not an objective take, fraud is destroying his business. He’s conflating all crypto with PoW based systems. A more accurate title would be "Bitcoin is Making My Life Complicated”.

"Help we need to do something about Malaria, it's killing all of my family members."

"This is not an objective take, his family is being affected. Malaria is not a problem."

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#77

Post by kemonocode »

knorker wrote: post #70
rubyn00bie wrote: post #48

I think there is a place for crypto, and I say that begrudgingly, ‘cuz ego, since I’ve been calling it all Tulips since a Bitcoin was $8. The biggest reason why Bitcoin works, and other established coins work, is because of demand from the developing world. If you don’t have reliable banks or governments then Cryptos are at least as good or better than your local banks because even if it collapses you can still acces…

From my reading it looks like the "developing world" use case is pure propaganda. E.g. someone investigated the "bitcoin in venezuela!" claim. Actually going there and tracking down use. Turns out it was a bitcoin investor who went to venezuela to do a transaction for the sole purpose of screaming "bitcoin in venezuela" to pump up the price.

You might want to check LocalBitcoin's usage in Venezuela [1] to get a clearer picture. It's not pure propaganda.

[1] https://coin.dance/volume/localbitcoins/VES

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#78

Post by knorker »

eric_cc wrote: post #65
knorker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But cars had value. They have value. They had value from day 1. Cryptocurrencies just don't. It's all smoke and mirrors, where everything would be better without the blockchain. Without irreversibility. Without everything about it. There are whole books about how terrible and useless it is. And please do what the article said: How much of your own money is dependent on you selling the lie of cryptocurrency or smart c…

> Cryptocurrencies just don't [have value]. It's all smoke and mirrors > super-immoral going-nowhere-moral tech lol what? Is US dollar moral? Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors" by your definition since it's just paper that we all believe has value?

> lol what? Is US dollar moral?

What exactly is your argument?

> Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors" by your definition since it's just paper that we all believe has value?

USD is backed by the mostly aligned incentives of the whole world in general, and the biggest company in the world in particular, and by the largest military might and nuclear arsenal, ultimately.

USD is paper and bits we believe has value. BTC is bits that most people believe doesn't have value. And that everyone knows will never displace USD because (see above) won't allow it.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#79

Post by eric_cc »

acdha wrote: post #69
eric_cc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but the easiest one: De-Fi

Can you explain in detail? Citing sources for claimed benefits over the established services it’s replicating?

Sure, if you compensate me for my time and effort in doing so. I'll compile a report for you for 0.0037 sats.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#80

Post by colpabar »

argvargc wrote: post #28
spir wrote: post #19

Cryptocurrency is not an abject disaster. Drew is right that proof of work mining is expensive and has serious negative externalities. Drew is also right that cryptocurrency, via its growth, hype, and decentralized and self-sovereign nature, is often an ideal vehicle for certain kinds of criminal activity, including pump-and-dump fraud or ransomware. Drew is right (perhaps indirectly) that many or most well-meaning c…

I can't imagine why you're being downvoted, for a well-balanced, educative post with full disclosure. No wait, I can - and it sucks.

>Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. [1] (emphasis mine)

The comments section is for discussion, why not discuss?

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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