10000 things all CS students should do before graduating • Hacker News Board

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#71

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:43 PM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #63

sukuriant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they all know how to configure LAMP? I use LAMP neither at work, nor at home; and even if I start running a server at home, the only things that will follow those initials there will be linux and python. I have no intention of using Apache or MySQL, so why LAMP? Furthermore, there are plenty of devs may never be on the web-app-dev/linux side of the world, so what's the point of Apache? (client-side develop…

Right, but if you had to configure LAMP, could you? What I said was, "every CS student SHOULD be able to configure LAMP." If you graduate with a degree and you can't configure the easiest web stack possible, then something went terribly wrong. edit sub LAMP with WISC# or whatever you want. The specific technologies aren't the point of the article. It's far more useful for him to say, "Do this in Python" for somebody…

Given how common guides are for setting up a basic LAMP, and that you can actually download free software called "MAMP" or "WAMP", it does seem like easily acquired knowledge.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#72

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:47 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #22

gaius wrote: post #3

How is any of that computer science ? I mean, is there a list out there for astronomy students that includes, grind your own lenses?

Specifically, grinding lenses for one specific type of telescope designed for looking at once specific thing. Has everyone forgotten that there's more to computer science than writing a CRUD app with a web interface?

But being able to write a CRUD app is a basic task. Like writing a FizzBuzz program.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#73

Post by spacemanaki » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:48 PM UTC

Locke1689 wrote: post #49

JeanPierre wrote: post #13

It's an interesting list, but I do believe it lacks a lot of computer-specific things which I personally think people should do. For example - Build your own computer - Build your own (small) operative system - Build your own programming language would be on my list of things a CS-student should do before graduating, because you will most likely get into problems where knowledge of the three things mentioned above wi…

Building your own computer or your own operating system very rarely help, in my opinion, because the real systems you work on are so much more complex than the pretend stuff you build that you miss massive layers of complexity. It's far better to have a good knowledge of how modern systems work than waste years attempting to build such a system. Similarly, I have no idea why you would build your own programming langu…

> Similarly, I have no idea why you would build your own programming language.

So, I might be biased because I'm a wannabe languages geek, but I think studying PL really does give you a lot of insight. I think if more people tried to write their own language, there would be far fewer flame wars about inane things like syntax, and far fewer poorly argued debates about types.

Plus, learning about parsing is definitely practical and useful.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#74

Post by presidentender » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:48 PM UTC

raffi wrote: post #62

I'm a computer scientist, not a web monkey (FOOTNOTE). I'd say these are not the things all CS students should do before graduating. The field has much more to it. How about: 1) add or modify a significant feature of a working kernel 2) write a toy programming language 3) program in a programming language with concurrent constructs (e.g., erlang) 4) study some theoretical area, develop a practical application based o…

Stuff on the list gets you jobs. Your stuff doesn't.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#75

Post by dpark » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:49 PM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #63

sukuriant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they all know how to configure LAMP? I use LAMP neither at work, nor at home; and even if I start running a server at home, the only things that will follow those initials there will be linux and python. I have no intention of using Apache or MySQL, so why LAMP? Furthermore, there are plenty of devs may never be on the web-app-dev/linux side of the world, so what's the point of Apache? (client-side develop…

Right, but if you had to configure LAMP, could you? What I said was, "every CS student SHOULD be able to configure LAMP." If you graduate with a degree and you can't configure the easiest web stack possible, then something went terribly wrong. edit sub LAMP with WISC# or whatever you want. The specific technologies aren't the point of the article. It's far more useful for him to say, "Do this in Python" for somebody…

> What I said was, "every CS student SHOULD be able to configure LAMP." If you graduate with a degree and you can't configure the easiest web stack possible, then something went terribly wrong.

This is kind of meaningless. Every CS student should be able to do X, but that doesn't mean every CS student should actually do X. X here could be "set up LAMP", "implement a linked list in every language you know", "read Mozilla's nsString code", "microwave a bag of popcorn", "part your hair in the middle", or "read Twilight: New Moon". A CS student should be able to accomplish these tasks, but that doesn't mean that a CS student should actually set a goal to do any of these things.

I've set up a LAMP stack before. I did it because I had a reason to, not because it was a meaningful learning experience. Setting up LAMP is sysadmin work. It has exactly nothing to do with CS.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#76

Post by bluesnowmonkey » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:49 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #17

ghurlman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. There's a general disconnect in a good amount of CS programs between the curriculum and reality. This post is trying to bridge the two. I'd also like to add: 10000 Learn to use source control, use it to store your new LAMP code on Github. 10001 Start studying design: web, graphic, type.

I am wary of that sort of very specific advice. Why LAMP, just because it's fashionable? There are many, many other sorts of web stack alone, let alone the many, many other sorts of application. Same with GitHub (which I use myself, btw), there are plenty of others. It just sounds like ESR's advice, to be a great hacker you should be just like me...

Sure, just because it's fashionable. X86 is fashionable, C++, Java, JavaScript, HTML, CSS. You definitely should try to become familiar with everything fashionable in our industry. Yeah they're all messy, but they are the reality of how things are done. People who think they don't need to are why we have the term "ivory tower".

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#77

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:51 PM UTC

Locke1689 wrote: post #49

JeanPierre wrote: post #13

It's an interesting list, but I do believe it lacks a lot of computer-specific things which I personally think people should do. For example - Build your own computer - Build your own (small) operative system - Build your own programming language would be on my list of things a CS-student should do before graduating, because you will most likely get into problems where knowledge of the three things mentioned above wi…

Building your own computer or your own operating system very rarely help, in my opinion, because the real systems you work on are so much more complex than the pretend stuff you build that you miss massive layers of complexity. It's far better to have a good knowledge of how modern systems work than waste years attempting to build such a system. Similarly, I have no idea why you would build your own programming langu…

But wasn't that how Linux came to be?

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#78

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:53 PM UTC

RyanGuest wrote: post #44

natural219 wrote: post #16

I think a lot of people here missed the point. This isn't a list of "stuff that will make you SUPER BALLER," it's a list of easy things that teach you very much and give you a lot of confidence for a very small amount of effort. Plus, all of these tasks are highly relevant in our web database-driven world. Not everyone wants to be Johnny Writes His Own C Compiler Geek, but every CS student SHOULD be able to configure…

Somebody should write a "stuff that will make you SUPER BALLER" list.

HN could create a master list of that.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#79

Post by dpark » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:54 PM UTC

ghurlman wrote: post #8

gaius wrote: post #3

How is any of that computer science ? I mean, is there a list out there for astronomy students that includes, grind your own lenses?

That's the point. There's a general disconnect in a good amount of CS programs between the curriculum and reality. This post is trying to bridge the two. I'd also like to add: 10000 Learn to use source control, use it to store your new LAMP code on Github. 10001 Start studying design: web, graphic, type.

> 10000 Learn to use source control

This is much better advice than telling someone to install LAMP.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#80

Post by Symmetry » Fri, Jun 24, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #63

sukuriant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they all know how to configure LAMP? I use LAMP neither at work, nor at home; and even if I start running a server at home, the only things that will follow those initials there will be linux and python. I have no intention of using Apache or MySQL, so why LAMP? Furthermore, there are plenty of devs may never be on the web-app-dev/linux side of the world, so what's the point of Apache? (client-side develop…

Right, but if you had to configure LAMP, could you? What I said was, "every CS student SHOULD be able to configure LAMP." If you graduate with a degree and you can't configure the easiest web stack possible, then something went terribly wrong. edit sub LAMP with WISC# or whatever you want. The specific technologies aren't the point of the article. It's far more useful for him to say, "Do this in Python" for somebody…

If you graduate with a degree and you can't configure the easiest web stack possible, then something went terribly wrong.

I think you've confused your specialty with the whole of computer science here. I have no idea how to configure any sort of web stack, but I certainly think I got a good value out of my degree. I bet that many people who would have no idea how to go about writing device drivers if you gave them a chip's datasheet, but that just means that they're pursuing a different specialty, not that they or their school is incompetent.