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Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

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Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#71

Post by shard »

brudgers wrote: post #50
abfan1127 wrote: post #25

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

The retail portion of a mall is so much more valuable that it is difficult to make economic sense out of that sort of configuration. [1] Architecturally isolating access and services for residential and office uses will tend to dramatically increase costs of those lesser uses...you don't want random mall patrons to have access to the residential areas. If the offices are accessible from the mall use, then why not bui…

I think one point is that there are only so many stores one mall can support, depending on the local population size. If land is expensive, then building on top of the mall to further utilize the land can become economical. As to whether offices or apartments are the better choice, that would depend on the local supply and demand of each.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#72

Post by dcolkitt »

blackearl wrote: post #5

Malls need to be remade. I like the few I've gone to that are mostly outside or have some open airways and greenery, art, music, some sort of novelty event or thing to check out. I don't really miss giant generic malls at all. They're used more as a free babysitter and I hate visiting them.

In most suburban areas, the land malls sit on are worth far more than the structure. There's also a desperate need for housing in most metros. Particularly high density single family homes near the center of town.

It's cool to imagine alternate uses for existing malls, but I'm guessing the best thing to do would be to demolish them, then convert the land to small, dense housing developments.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#73

Post by SkyPuncher »

treeman79 wrote: post #56
wil421 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The more popular new shopping areas I’ve been are outdoor “malls”. Shopping mixed with outdoors, and as you said greenery, art, music and novelties. A lot of indoor malls are dying. I can remember when the same empty places exploded in the 90s.

Lots of parts of the country have unpleasant weather much of the year.

I live in the northern Midwest. Our mall closed this past year and is being made into some sort of mixed-use outdoor space.

The reality is the cold weather doesn't really bother people who are use to it. I'm happy to spend time outside jumping store to store because I'll be dressed appropriately.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#74

Post by sokoloff »

bombcar wrote: post #57
spicybright wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if zoning laws have a big effect on that.

It does but the dirty secret is that given enough money or interest zoning is a relatively weak opponent - there jus tidbit that much desire for mixed use buildings in most areas. (The low-key method for normal people is to get “variances” - which are not as impossible to obtain as you may think if you work slowly and quietly on them.)

I’ve attended a few variance hearings (always in support of my neighbors who wanted to get a variance for their property). Variances are granted here for the flimsiest of reasons, to regular people who don’t have a clue how to ask for what they want and what they saw two other people get variances for in the same hearing.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#75

Post by angled »

shard wrote: post #70
numpad0 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it must be human nature that we don’t desire housing and commerce in a single building in the same way as how we’d want kitchen and bathroom to be separate, because buildings in that apartment on top configuration always seems borderline rundown to me. Office + mall examples usually seem to be working fine, except there always are one entrance for each, distanced physically as well as in general aesthetics.

I think it's just tradition and what people are used to, since buildings with both are actually considered more desirable in Korea, and are often more luxurious apartments than normal.

Hong Kong also builds this way，and includes schools in the complexes for good measure.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#76

Post by chrisin2d »

flubert wrote: post #24
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are? Just search for dead/abandoned mall videos on YouTube. No shortage of malls declining.

Is there a good way to quantify? There are also endless youtube videos of all manner of abandoned structures in Detroit, but I don't know that extrapolates to things outside of Detroit for example.

You can look at department stores that are typical anchor tenants like Macy's, Sears, Carson's, Nordstrom, and JCPenney. Thousands of locations have been closed and the trend is expected to continue; new ones aren't being opened.

We know that when a mall loses its anchor tenants its demise accelerates as its smaller retailers depend on the anchor tenants to pull in foot traffic. It's a doom feedback cycle.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#77

Post by jasonboyd »

numpad0 wrote: post #54
abfan1127 wrote: post #25

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

I think it must be human nature that we don’t desire housing and commerce in a single building in the same way as how we’d want kitchen and bathroom to be separate, because buildings in that apartment on top configuration always seems borderline rundown to me. Office + mall examples usually seem to be working fine, except there always are one entrance for each, distanced physically as well as in general aesthetics.

We who? I've lived in mixed use buildings with bars, restaurants, and other small businesses on the first floor and apartments above. It was quite nice, I really enjoyed it.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#78

Post by mastrsushi »

Department stores will die, but existing malls will be repurposed into community centers, homeless shelters, Amusement facilities.

As my doctor ordered I walk 4 miles a day, I go to different malls in the DC area at least twice a week. I don't even buy anything, I just look around.

I see lots of gen Z shoppers. They still have that intoxicated look, running around with shopping bags. Like you would of seen in a 1970s mall promotional video.

Again, I'm sure eventually Amazon, Walmart and online shopping will wipe retail stores off the face of the earth. But I don't think we'll see a replacement for the indoor foreground experience you get at a mall.

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