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Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

aspe.hhs.gov

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Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#71

Post by felixgallo »

adamrezich wrote: post #66
losingmyjob wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hopefully over time this improves especially as private enterprises put some pressure on getting vaccinated I really hope I don't lose my job because I don't want to take an experimental, unapproved vaccine for a disease that hospitalizes less than 5% of people across all age groups when I work from home, am a healthy weight, and am under forty. The risk for me is, in fact, comparable to the flu, and the vaccine ha…

it's too bad this post & the one after it go over the edge of acceptable discourse here, because a lot of people who read & post here agree with your overall analysis, even though they don't often speak up on these issues. you are definitely not alone in your frustration.

citation needed. Relatively few people in the HN demographic believe in this nonsense, as you can easily see in the data in the OP.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#72

Post by ianai »

giantg2 wrote: post #65
ianai wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get the idea. The point is this isn’t about any individual persons life. This is about the vaccine being our only weapon that can actually stop this pandemic. If we just went on without a vaccine then we probably would see a variant arise that could live longer on surfaces or otherwise spread immensely more effectively or even more deadly. There’s nothing stopping a mutation from really killing 50-75% or more of…

"actually stop this pandemic" I think that's wishful thinking. This will be globally endemic just as the flu is. It will continue mutating in the unvaccinated population as well as the non-human carriers (like pets). Sure, if a lot of people are vaccinated, then it might slow the timeline down for when that mutation will emerge. "There’s nothing stopping a mutation from really killing 50-75% or more of people. It’s a…

Last I heard, pets were still a one in a million or smaller likelihood. Doesn’t seem a likely place for a disease to bounce around long term. The unvaccinated population is the far greater problem.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#73

Post by adamrezich »

psychometry wrote: post #32
greesil wrote: post #3

Why does the data change so much on the boundaries of states? I would expect the data to be locally correlated, and there wouldn't be discrepancies between neighboring rural counties that are in different states.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/system/files/pdf/265341/vaccine-hesitan... "State of residence" was a predictor in their linear model. A person's state (and its government) will probably affect the outcome variable to some extend, so it's not really surprising that it might be retained as a significant term. However, I find it hard to believe it's so important. I wonder if that predictor is simply confounded with some unobserve…

why are people so quick to wish away the concept of state lines? if there were no (or less) obviously visible state lines in the data, and everything was more of a gradient, I would be immensely surprised.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#74

Post by oramit »

kepler1 wrote: post #28

Friends, tell me how I should be more positive or community minded in thinking about this. Because right now, I say -- "anyone who doesn't want a vaccine, well you live with the consequences and if you can't come to rational understanding that it's your own life being saved, then I shed no tears over your choice". People who do it out of religious (or Republican) dogma, I'm not sympathetic. People who believe in cons…

While I think you are wording things more harshly than myself, I am largely in agreement.

It is still difficult to get a vaccine in a lot of places in the country but once we get to summer and there are walk in clinics everywhere my sympathy levels for people who get sick out of vaccine stubbornness is going to be zero.

At some point you need to take personal responsibility for your own health.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#75

Post by adamrezich »

felixgallo wrote: post #71
adamrezich wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's too bad this post & the one after it go over the edge of acceptable discourse here, because a lot of people who read & post here agree with your overall analysis, even though they don't often speak up on these issues. you are definitely not alone in your frustration.

citation needed. Relatively few people in the HN demographic believe in this nonsense, as you can easily see in the data in the OP.

it's been over four years, how have we still not learned the number one lesson from the 2016 US Presidential Election: that highly-engaged views and opinions expressed online so as to create an outward appearance of nearly-uniform perspective, do not necessarily represent the views of the collective whole, because many people with the unpopular view/opinion will actively choose to not express it, for fear of ostracization? there are many people in tech who don't share the popular view/opinion on many different subjects, and instead keep quiet about it. sometimes they push back on things in very measured amounts here and there; other times, they make throwaways just to fire off a rant of their true feelings, knowing the throwaway will be banned. most of the time though, they just shut up.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#76

Post by adamrezich »

psychometry wrote: post #23
darkwizard42 wrote: post #2

This is a pretty interesting map/graph. I also like that they linked to the data in table form. Not really surprised at the areas that are darkest, but still feel worried that lots of areas near 20%. Specifically the levels of non-Hispanic Black hesitancy in the South is really rough. Hopefully over time this improves especially as private enterprises put some pressure on getting vaccinated

I have much greater confidence that vaccination of non-white populations in the South will climb to acceptable levels than I do when it comes to GOP base of rural white people with no college.

completely baffling to see people imply that college attendance is a prerequisite for having informed views and perspectives on things like politics, in twenty twenty-one.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#77

Post by giantg2 »

adamrezich wrote: post #67
giantg2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the refusal of the drug company lawyers to accept liability if something is wrong" In theory the government is supposed to provide a settlement under the countermeasure version of the national vaccine injury compensation fund. I say in theory because the system doesn't work as well as it's marketed to (based on personal experience). Also, I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. Maybe just an unpopular opinion or t…

iirc these non-FDA-approved (instead, emergency-use-authorized) products use a separate compensation fund compared to the typical vaccine compensation fund. but having these compensation funds instead of allowing legal action against manufacturers of products is kind of ridiculous on its own, when you get down to it... but it's become highly uncool to question the motives of big pharma in the past year.

Yeah, that's why I said it was the countermeasure version. I just can't remember the actual name and am too lazy to look it up (or maybe too burnt out to care).

The purpose of the funds was good. It was supposed to provide an easy mechanism for victims to recover damages that would not be as arduous as traditional litigation. The purpose was to increase public trust in vaccines that are commonly required/pushed by the government. It does perform this for the common or known side effects listed in the compensation table. Although some of the amounts approved as caps may not take into account individual differences, and don't provide great flexibility.

It's extremely difficult if it's a rare issue or if the underlying mechanism is not known. This mechanism part is the real downside. You could be completely healthy, get a shot, and two days later be airlifted to the ICU with a heart issue that has no family history or even an explanation for the cause other than "some people just have this" (no genetics really identified yet either). How can you prove it was the vaccine if they don't know the factors that would normally cause it? There are other reports of the issue in VAERS, the patient is in one of the lowest risk populations for first time presentation, etc. Even if you don't have a conclusive underlying mechanism, there's no opposing theory for the "natural" mechanism that would normally cause it (even stuff like which genes cause it), but the special vaccine court will most likely say 'too bad, it might be a coincidence'. If they do that, this seems contrary to intended purpose of building public trust in vaccines and compensating victims in a less confrontational system. Now you don't fight a company, you have to fight the government.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#78

Post by vokep »

kepler1 wrote: post #28

Friends, tell me how I should be more positive or community minded in thinking about this. Because right now, I say -- "anyone who doesn't want a vaccine, well you live with the consequences and if you can't come to rational understanding that it's your own life being saved, then I shed no tears over your choice". People who do it out of religious (or Republican) dogma, I'm not sympathetic. People who believe in cons…

Its not a racially based cruel experiment probably, but it is an experiment on the mass population. The long term effects are untested and unknown, the only accurate description of it is that it is a massive experiment. Look into the 70s swine flu vaccination effort, similar fear based advertisement with lack of accountability.

When you have a system with

A) massive profit incentive (pfizer and moderna now 'suggesting' annual shots will be neccesary)

B) a populace accepting headlines without verification of what's claimed

C) no accountability if it turns out the vaccine isn't safe

You can't seriously expect that to be accepted. If any individual wants to take those chances with the belief they're doing something good for their community, great, let them take that risk. But the concept of mandating this or even socially expecting your friends and family to take part in this experiment, is absurd, and extremely bewildering to see.

This virus is somewhat more deadly and infectious than the flu or existing cold virus, but looking at the actual numbers of those lost to it, its in fact not much different than the flu. Having lost friends to the flu, I'm not sure people have an understanding of how deadly it actually is. We accept the deadliness of the flu and move on with life because the alternative would defeat much of the point of living. Same as we get in cars every day which kill thousands constantly. Having a suggestion of everyone to simply be more hygienic and socially distance is reasonable, everything else is way beyond necessity.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#79

Post by giantg2 »

ianai wrote: post #72
giantg2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"actually stop this pandemic" I think that's wishful thinking. This will be globally endemic just as the flu is. It will continue mutating in the unvaccinated population as well as the non-human carriers (like pets). Sure, if a lot of people are vaccinated, then it might slow the timeline down for when that mutation will emerge. "There’s nothing stopping a mutation from really killing 50-75% or more of people. It’s a…

Last I heard, pets were still a one in a million or smaller likelihood. Doesn’t seem a likely place for a disease to bounce around long term. The unvaccinated population is the far greater problem.

Probably. My point is that even 100% vaccination won't fully stop it since there are other carriers in the environment. They slaughtered a bunch of minks due to infection, so I would imagine there are other reservoirs out there (wild weasels, pet ferrets, some other species). After all, one theory is this virus got it's start though human-animal contact.

Re: Vaccine Hesitancy for Covid-19: State, County, and Local Estimates

#80

Post by Grim-444 »

standardUser wrote: post #27
losingmyjob wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hopefully over time this improves especially as private enterprises put some pressure on getting vaccinated I really hope I don't lose my job because I don't want to take an experimental, unapproved vaccine for a disease that hospitalizes less than 5% of people across all age groups when I work from home, am a healthy weight, and am under forty. The risk for me is, in fact, comparable to the flu, and the vaccine ha…

"The risk for me is, in fact..." In fact, the risk for you is that you infect someone you care about and they end up hospitalized or dead. That is a very real risk that has played out countless times during this pandemic and has cost thousands and thousands of lives.

Those vulnerable people are free to vaccinate themselves and be protected.
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