The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts • Hacker News Board

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#71

Post by popinman322 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

yosito wrote: post #36

mattmanser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, look at it from totally the opposite direction to see their point of view. Your workers are under threat from poorly made postal bombs that could easily blow up during processing, killing your workers. Due to the vast volume of post you process, the threat is real and non-trivial. Do you do nothing? I think you obviously have to do something, whether you go as far as they did is what's up for debate.

> Do you do nothing? No, you coordinate with the CIA or FBI to investigate threats against the government.

Postal inspectors can hand off to other teams for investigation of affairs that might affect more than the post system-- hence this memo.

If postal workers are at risk then it's within their purview (as it has been for over 200 years) to investigate and warn local offices in addition to other government offices.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#72

Post by f430 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

USPS is the new DEA

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#73

Post by HenryBemis » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #64

snowwrestler wrote: post #45

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

> I will say that personally I have fewer concerns about programs to monitor public content on the Internet, than programs that seek to access, monitor, and store content that people intended to be privately communicated to other people. You may have fewer concerns about public monitoring vs private spying, presumably because in the latter case privacy is being violated in a way that isn't the case for the former. Bu…

Public vs Private:

Public: I can think of an example. If the USPS finds out that in a certain area of a certain city, there is a big chance to have riots "tomorrow after 10am" (protests because of X-Y-Z resason), they can alert their local teams to e.g. deliver the post at 7am instead of 11am. Yes, some operations would be impacted (e.g. noon delivery won't happen), but this will protect the staff, protect the items (letters, parcels), the vehicles, etc.

If they just hoard data to feed a bigger best (e.g. NSA) then, the data is still out there (my public blog, your public blog, HN comments, etc.) and they are up for the taking. In which case it doesn't matter if it is a federal agent carrying a NSA or a USPS badge.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#74

Post by JJMcJ » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

TheRealPomax wrote: post #68

GCA10 wrote: post #47

Lots of sentiment today that the USPS is way out of its zone of expertise in doing this -- and that is possible. But it's worth noting that the USPS has had its own legion of postal inspectors going back to the 19th century, when they were a (comparatively) huge part of the U.S. government, and the FBI, etc. did not exist. Some 1,200 postal inspectors are still around, and they play important roles on federal prosecu…

Sure, but the 19th century ended over 120 years ago. So that's kind of not relevant to how they're structured and operate today?

I think 1,200 investigators for the entirety of the USPS's operations isn't out of line.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#75

Post by agogdog » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

tims33 wrote: post #31

This is a truly bizarre story. I agree with others that other government agencies should run this particularly given USPS already well known financial challenges.

This is in no way related to their financial struggles.

The USPS was breaking even regularly (phenomenal considering what they do) until they were forced to save up funding for 75 years of pensions within a 10 year span. Not only that, but they have to exclusively rely on the US Treasuries to fund the retiree medial fund, so it's more expensive out of the gate.

So they're doing more for their employees, paying more for it, and are required to do so in a shorter amount of time than just about any private company out there.

I'd be surprised if this covert program cost more than 1% of what the pension fund does.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#76

Post by NoSorryCannot » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #24

saurik wrote: post #11

I feel like the key sentence in this article (edit: which is ironically no longer verbatim in this article, which I see hours later has been heavily expanded) which purports to answer the "but... why the USPS?"--is: > The agency told Yahoo News the Inspection Service collaborates with law-enforcement agencies to identify and assess threats to the Postal Service and its "overall mail processing and transportation netw…

Now I'm worried they might find out that I've been using this newfangled technology called "email" for the past 25 years and I haven't licked a stamp in over a decade. Some say its only used for money laundering and drug dealing, but I think it's rather convenient and more innovative than what the government can offer.

If only some other kind of mail had become popular to replace the lost letter volume...

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#77

Post by GavinMcG » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

TheRealPomax wrote: post #68

GCA10 wrote: post #47

Lots of sentiment today that the USPS is way out of its zone of expertise in doing this -- and that is possible. But it's worth noting that the USPS has had its own legion of postal inspectors going back to the 19th century, when they were a (comparatively) huge part of the U.S. government, and the FBI, etc. did not exist. Some 1,200 postal inspectors are still around, and they play important roles on federal prosecu…

Sure, but the 19th century ended over 120 years ago. So that's kind of not relevant to how they're structured and operate today?

Not relevant? Do you somehow imagine that how things were done in the past doesn't affect "how they're structured and operate today"?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#78

Post by dataflow » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #45

Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…

> Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc.

Maybe worth noting that USPIS is older than the FBI. It's the oldest federal law enforcement agency.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#79

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

GCA10 wrote: post #47

Lots of sentiment today that the USPS is way out of its zone of expertise in doing this -- and that is possible. But it's worth noting that the USPS has had its own legion of postal inspectors going back to the 19th century, when they were a (comparatively) huge part of the U.S. government, and the FBI, etc. did not exist. Some 1,200 postal inspectors are still around, and they play important roles on federal prosecu…

"When our Corps goes in as guards over the mail, that mail must be delivered," wrote Secretary of the Navy Edwin Denby. "Or there must be a Marine dead at the post of duty. There can be no compromise."

https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/08/25/intense-rules-u...

The mail is serious business.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#80

Post by gnicholas » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

bigth wrote: post #70

I'm surprised by the comments here. People seem clueless to real threats the USPS faces and are puzzled why they have inspectors. Last year or maybe it was 2019 a delivery worker was murdered. Agg robberies of delivery workers has been going up. Breaking into mail boxes and mail theft has been going up. Using mail service to conduct fraud and other criminal transactions is going up. I'm on mobile so it's hard to get…

I'm not surprised they have inspectors. I'm surprised they think that social media surveillance is within their purview.

I hope their inspectors continue to investigate mail theft, mail fraud, and other things related to the physical delivery of mail. But I don't want them shifting into digital snooping that is totally unrelated to mail.