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SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

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Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#71

Post by dleslie »

endymi0n wrote: post #65
dleslie wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actively talk over slack. There's a #random channel, a #stonks channel, et al. There's plenty of banter. But _anyone_ can mute those and focus. I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk.

We also _write_ actively over Slack. I write into my text editor as well, I don't feel a difference. I'm staring at the same freaking screen all day, interfacing with individuals that couldn't feel more irreplaceable. Maybe they're advanced ML text and video synthesis models, I don't know. Every day feels the same, like three weeks old chewing gum. Work is effective and incredibly empty. I don't know what we're worki…

It's sort of telling that you lump introverts, nomads, misanthropists and sociopaths together.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#72

Post by solosoyokaze »

cortesoft wrote: post #69
dleslie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a wife and two children six and under. Working from home has far less distractions than any office I've ever been in.

Do you have an office? My working space at home is a small corner of the living room, a few feet from the kitchen and dining room. There is no better space. Also, does your wife also work? I just can’t fathom how it isn’t distracting. My kids are two and five, so someone pretty much always has to be watching the two year old. You can’t fully focus on something while watching them. Even my daughter, who is five and ca…

If you work remotely, you can relocate to a much lower cost of living area. This way you can get much more space, including a dedicated office. This also can lower costs enough that only one parent has to work, making the other available to watch the kids.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#73

Post by thelean12 »

dleslie wrote: post #55
thelean12 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk. Maybe my team was more respectful. Any prolonged conversation can and was taken to a conference room or common area. I also wear noise canceling headphones most of the day, and find the general muted drone of office noises nice. People listen to recorded audio of cafes and stuff, it's basically the same for me. But to be clear: I'm not saying everyone shoul…

Noise cancelling isn't enough. If I know someone is discussing topics important to my deliverables then I have to pay attention.

I'm not sure how that's different than someone sending a direct message to someone in a chat. Except now you'd definitely have no idea if someone was discussing something important and you were missing it.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#74

Post by HWR_14 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #25
dleslie wrote: post #9

I am _ridiculously_ more productive at home. When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. Having impromptu hallway meetings mean that your peers, and subordinates, must keep an ear open for such events should they risk being left out of important decision making processes. Having watercooler conversat…

> When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic. That people have to work and babysit their kids during school. That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home works…

>What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic

How so (rhetorically asked)?

> That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home workspace isn't adequate enough to get work done.

These all seem like problems that arise from WFH. Especially two people working from home. Inadequate workspace and isolation at home.

> Before the pandemic, I would regularly rotate venues for where I got my work done. I'd go to different coffee shops and libraries.

Yeah, if you can work from a coworking space (either formal or informal) that solves quite a few of those problems. That's different. Although I don't want to subsidize my employer's office rent, but I'm happy to direct their funds to a location I prefer.

The other point I note is that you work on a laptop. You talk about taking it with you and other clues. How do you work on a small screen, touchpad, and a laptop keyboard. I'm honestly curious, because I've tried it many times and there must be some tricks I need to start employing. The lack of dual screens alone seems like it would kill productivity. (And sea air seems like it would kill your electronics.)

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#75

Post by nkrisc »

thelean12 wrote: post #24
dleslie wrote: post #9

I am _ridiculously_ more productive at home. When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. Having impromptu hallway meetings mean that your peers, and subordinates, must keep an ear open for such events should they risk being left out of important decision making processes. Having watercooler conversat…

Your description of ideal working conditions sounds so robotic to me. Schedule everything! No off the cuff conversations! Screw the human desire for socializing, we've got shit to do! Right now my team is comprised of no one that I've met in person. I feel absolutely no connection to them and feel so incredibly disconnected from my work. Like I've been playing the same video game for 8 hours a day for a year and noth…

Different strokes for different folks, but I work to make money, not friends. If I don’t need the money I wouldn’t be there. I prefer to socialize outside of work.

I do my job, my coworkers do their job, and then we can close our laptops at the end of the day and engage with our lives and not think about each other.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#76

Post by dleslie »

cortesoft wrote: post #69
dleslie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a wife and two children six and under. Working from home has far less distractions than any office I've ever been in.

Do you have an office? My working space at home is a small corner of the living room, a few feet from the kitchen and dining room. There is no better space. Also, does your wife also work? I just can’t fathom how it isn’t distracting. My kids are two and five, so someone pretty much always has to be watching the two year old. You can’t fully focus on something while watching them. Even my daughter, who is five and ca…

Nope. I work next to the front door, the house television is above my computer monitors and the couch is behind my chair. There is no door to this space.

My wife is a physiotherapist, and due to health privacy regulations cannot share space while talking to clients, which is constant and ongoing. So when the kids are home they're with me, behind me, playing with lego/duplo.

The difference between my daughters' jabber and my coworkers' jabber is that I can safely ignore my daughters. I cannot ignore my coworkers.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#77

Post by cortesoft »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #72
cortesoft wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an office? My working space at home is a small corner of the living room, a few feet from the kitchen and dining room. There is no better space. Also, does your wife also work? I just can’t fathom how it isn’t distracting. My kids are two and five, so someone pretty much always has to be watching the two year old. You can’t fully focus on something while watching them. Even my daughter, who is five and ca…

If you work remotely, you can relocate to a much lower cost of living area. This way you can get much more space, including a dedicated office. This also can lower costs enough that only one parent has to work, making the other available to watch the kids.

Well, two parents working means the kids would be in daycare normally, that wouldn’t change with WFH or not. This is more of a pandemic issue than a WFH issue.

Also, the choice of whether one or both parents work is about more than just money. For one thing, it is basically choosing to end your career; we might not wish it to be so, but getting back in the workforce after being out for years is very difficult, and will require moving down the career growth ladder quite a bit.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#78

Post by dleslie »

thelean12 wrote: post #73
dleslie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noise cancelling isn't enough. If I know someone is discussing topics important to my deliverables then I have to pay attention.

I'm not sure how that's different than someone sending a direct message to someone in a chat. Except now you'd definitely have no idea if someone was discussing something important and you were missing it.

With vocal interaction people expect an immediate response. With text interaction they are willing to tolerate a delay.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#79

Post by endymi0n »

dleslie wrote: post #71
endymi0n wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also _write_ actively over Slack. I write into my text editor as well, I don't feel a difference. I'm staring at the same freaking screen all day, interfacing with individuals that couldn't feel more irreplaceable. Maybe they're advanced ML text and video synthesis models, I don't know. Every day feels the same, like three weeks old chewing gum. Work is effective and incredibly empty. I don't know what we're worki…

It's sort of telling that you lump introverts, nomads, misanthropists and sociopaths together.

Telling about what? I was enumerating groups of people who don't particularly value being around other people. Maybe I'm wrong with sociopaths in that regard though, as they might actually enjoy that for all the wrong reasons.

I realize how this categorization can be seen as disingenious though. Sorry for that, I didn't mean to be — I'm just completely burned out.

If anything, it gives me a little bit better of an impression of (the exact opposite of?) what introverts must probably suffer through in an office environment full of extroverts like me.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#80

Post by dleslie »

endymi0n wrote: post #79
dleslie wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sort of telling that you lump introverts, nomads, misanthropists and sociopaths together.

Telling about what? I was enumerating groups of people who don't particularly value being around other people. Maybe I'm wrong with sociopaths in that regard though, as they might actually enjoy that for all the wrong reasons. I realize how this categorization can be seen as disingenious though. Sorry for that, I didn't mean to be — I'm just completely burned out. If anything, it gives me a little bit better of an im…

It's telling about your feelings and perspective of people who are happy with the current situation.

Your problem isn't working from home, it's that you're only at home and lacking normal human interaction. Normally, if you were working from home you would be able to spend time with other people after work.

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