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Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

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Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#71

Post by varispeed »

est31 wrote: post #14
Laremere wrote: post #12

I wonder if the Apple Silicon decision is going to have a large impact on what CPUs are used in the datacenter? I (and I suspect many others) would just default to x86_64, because that's what I develop on and compile to. I suspect many developers on Apple computers will start to look at the differences and choose whatever meets their requirements while minimizing costs. Should this trend continue, this could even hav…

That's what Linus Torvalds said too: ARM won't have a chance in the datacenter until it gets onto desktop computers of developers first. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=183440&curpost... That moment is now here. Sure, it's only a subset of the market, but Mac devices are a significant percentage of developer computers (28%), way higher than in the general population (17%). https://insights.stackoverflow…

Why does it matter what CPU one is running on their desktop? In my laptop I have a consumer Intel CPU and AMD on a desktop, but my servers run on Xeon and ARM. Even for a second I didn't think that oh I have a Intel desktop CPU, so I need to avoid ARM. As long as project compiles for different architecture and you have good test coverage only thing that matters is performance and cost.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#72

Post by kube-system »

rbut wrote: post #65
est31 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Linus Torvalds said too: ARM won't have a chance in the datacenter until it gets onto desktop computers of developers first. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=183440&curpost... That moment is now here. Sure, it's only a subset of the market, but Mac devices are a significant percentage of developer computers (28%), way higher than in the general population (17%). https://insights.stackoverflow…

That’s assuming all current Mac developers decide to switch to ARM macs. I (Mac developer of 13 years) have switched away to linux. I’m sure there are others like me.

And I made the opposite switch to Mac after the M1 was released.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#73

Post by lostlogin »

Toutouxc wrote: post #70
vetinari wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac mini might be $700/€800, but 1) for an inadequate configuration, you need €1260 for something usable and 2) the cost of integrating the first Mac into Windows-optimized infrastructure is way above that. If you want things like Kerberos SSO (i.e. Active Directory), you need Apple-blessed MDM system to provision it. That one isn't coming in the price of the Mac mini. So most companies, if they have a mac, it is one…

The M1 Mac Mini with 16 GB RAM is $859 in the US and 1029€ in a generic European country (Germany). In my opinion that's pretty competitive.

The bit that I’ve been impressed by is the life span. Machines used every day for 8-13 years and still ok. The amount of pain they cause due to various bits of software beginning to fail and workarounds being required obviously grows, and the security side of things isn’t great either. But the machines end up rather cost effective when spread over that many years.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#74

Post by 1_player »

varispeed wrote: post #71
est31 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Linus Torvalds said too: ARM won't have a chance in the datacenter until it gets onto desktop computers of developers first. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=183440&curpost... That moment is now here. Sure, it's only a subset of the market, but Mac devices are a significant percentage of developer computers (28%), way higher than in the general population (17%). https://insights.stackoverflow…

Why does it matter what CPU one is running on their desktop? In my laptop I have a consumer Intel CPU and AMD on a desktop, but my servers run on Xeon and ARM. Even for a second I didn't think that oh I have a Intel desktop CPU, so I need to avoid ARM. As long as project compiles for different architecture and you have good test coverage only thing that matters is performance and cost.

Cross-compiling isn't fun. If my next startup is powered by a high performance C++ core that it's built on x86, you bet I'm going to run it on x86 instead of trying to cross-compile it for ARM, for which benefit by the way?

Idem if I run ARM locally, I'll deploy on ARM.

Of course this does not apply to interpreted languages or any of the modern languages (Go, Rust, Zig) that make cross compiling _somewhat_ easier.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#76

Post by lostlogin »

tinus_hn wrote: post #64
biztos wrote: post #22

Doesn’t this imply that we could have Docker for iOS? I don’t think Apple would allow it, but it seems like an interesting antitrust wedge if they blocked it.

What would you want to use that for?

For me - the various things I use Docker for now. Firing up containers for ESPHome and related projects. Testing things out is great and doing it more readily sounds neat. It can be done is a fairly simple fashion via a gui (eg the Synology implementation). I’ve just finished messing about with that Grafana speed test project that was featured here last week, and doing it on an iOS could be good.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#77

Post by vetinari »

Toutouxc wrote: post #70
vetinari wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac mini might be $700/€800, but 1) for an inadequate configuration, you need €1260 for something usable and 2) the cost of integrating the first Mac into Windows-optimized infrastructure is way above that. If you want things like Kerberos SSO (i.e. Active Directory), you need Apple-blessed MDM system to provision it. That one isn't coming in the price of the Mac mini. So most companies, if they have a mac, it is one…

The M1 Mac Mini with 16 GB RAM is $859 in the US and 1029€ in a generic European country (Germany). In my opinion that's pretty competitive.

€1029 is for 8 GB version. For 16GB RAM/512 GB SSD, it is the €1259. I've checked before posting ;)

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#78

Post by lostlogin »

kube-system wrote: post #72
rbut wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s assuming all current Mac developers decide to switch to ARM macs. I (Mac developer of 13 years) have switched away to linux. I’m sure there are others like me.

And I made the opposite switch to Mac after the M1 was released.

What did you switch from and how have you found it?

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#80

Post by randallsquared »

coldtea wrote: post #66
pjmlp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP was the one asserting how M1 is relevant for the data center. As for the rest I won't bother to reply.

> OP was the one asserting how M1 is relevant for the data center. And I think his assertion is on point, in the sense that the widespread availability of desktop ARMs on developers hands will help drive ARM adoption to the datacenter (and that's just with the M1/M... line, not to mention further ARM adoption by MS that's also possible). For what is worth, Linus Torvalds made a similar point regarding the influence o…

Given the rest of their comment, I thought "care for" meant "support". That is, system administration and developer support, rather than "care about"...
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