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Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

git.kernel.org

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Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#71

Post by globular-toast »

xmodem wrote: post #19
curiousgal wrote: post #12

Maybe I am being over cynical by isn't this a huge waste of time given that Apple can "pull the plug" at any time? They want to control everything that runs on their chips so why bother?

Apple has publicly stated their intent to permit users to run other operating systems on Apple silicon, and has provided various mechanisms for them to do so in a first-class way (still supporting secure boot, for instance). Of course, they haven't gone as far as many of use would like - marcan has had to do a lot of reverse engineering of stuff they could have just released the docs for, and it's always possible the…

Imagine buying hardware where the manufacturer has to explicitly permit you to run certain software on it. No thanks...

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#72

Post by shmerl »

strange_things wrote: post #20

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

Some are better than others. Don't be hesitant - just find one that works well and use Linux.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#73

Post by globular-toast »

weikju wrote: post #22
curiousgal wrote: post #12

Maybe I am being over cynical by isn't this a huge waste of time given that Apple can "pull the plug" at any time? They want to control everything that runs on their chips so why bother?

With that attitude, no one would have ever started trying to write and run their own kernel called Freax on a PC...

The PC has always been an open platform. Documentation is readily available and the intention is for users to run whatever they want on the hardware. Completely different.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#74

Post by speedgoose »

533474 wrote: post #70

Why do we still buy macs? Apple can pull the plug anytime. Kudos yo the huge undertaking but I personally think we wouldn't need this type of gargatuan effort if we just refused to buy macs without linux support. Why support such a closed system?, enlighten me...

The MacBook M1 is a very good laptop despite everything.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#75

Post by kelnos »

varispeed wrote: post #48
paxys wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Macbooks make good linux laptops. This hasn't really been the case for a while now.

Intel CPUs are pretty much the same as 5 years ago...

Yes, true, but Intel's integrated graphics has gotten a lot better in the last 5 years, and many laptops from that era end up with ~8GB of RAM (non-upgradeable in an Apple laptop), which is just not enough for what I do. (My current laptop has 16GB, and my next one will definitely have 32GB minimum.)

I have 2016 and 2018 Intel laptops (non-Apple, but similar in "class"), and it's surprising how much better the graphics is on the 2018 model.

I would love to try a laptop with AMD graphics, but the laptops I find with AMD kit in them generally don't meet my requirements for other reasons. And I'm forever scarred by mid-'00s experiences with Nvidia on Linux, so I refuse to buy Nvidia hardware.

I do some light gaming (not enough to justify a desktop/gaming PC), and even with 2010-era games I can't run them on 2018 Intel graphics with the quality settings above "medium", so I'll take the fastest Intel graphics I can get.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#76

Post by kelnos »

paxys wrote: post #16
tumblewit wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I guess I should have said old there. The touchbar macbooks are definitely not something that fits this case

Things have been spotty since well before the touchbar. I doubt anyone is running Linux reliably on any Macbook built after like 2014. There are still open issues with keyboard, touchpad, display drivers, brightness, sleep, nvme and lots more.

Yep. In 2018 I tried to run Linux on a 2016 MacBook Pro, and it was a pain. The keyboard/touchpad weren't supported without an out-of-tree driver, and audio and suspend-to-RAM didn't work at all. I hear things are better with that model now (I gave up in 2019 and got a Dell XPS13): keyboard/touchpad driver has been upstreamed and I believe there are patches to get audio working, but I don't know about suspend.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#77

Post by piokoch »

strange_things wrote: post #20

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

I was investigating recently options which laptop I can buy to be able to use Linux without any issues. I've checked Lenovo Legion 5 with AMD processor. Looks like good machine for a price, but touchpad is not gonna work out of the box on the latest stable Ubuntu. Kernel upgrade is needed (or PopOs distro that already has needed patch).

For me kernel update does not sound as something big, at least I know that something like kernel exists in Linux, the point is that average computer user these days does not have such knowledge.

That was just one example. Many people can give more and more on various issues. Some edge cases with routers provided by ISP. With wifi repeaters/boosters. With printers. DLNA equipment connectivity (I had this one too - again, after googling I've installed some software and it started to work, but average... and so on).

Typically older equipment and standard peripherals work ok. But people use all kind of stuff.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#78

Post by yoz-y »

fxtentacle wrote: post #42

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

I think that elementaryos has had the best shot at this as of yet.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#79

Post by yoz-y »

533474 wrote: post #70

Why do we still buy macs? Apple can pull the plug anytime. Kudos yo the huge undertaking but I personally think we wouldn't need this type of gargatuan effort if we just refused to buy macs without linux support. Why support such a closed system?, enlighten me...

Because surprise, surprise, most Mac users don’t give a squat about running Linux on them. This leads to a world where a lot of people have macs, and if you want to “convert” them you need to support the machines they already have.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#80

Post by ginko »

fxtentacle wrote: post #42

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

Anecdotal I know, but I very recently got a macbook air after years of practically exclusively using Linux and the opinionated user interface drives me crazy.

Here's a few pain points:

- Scroll direction can only be set globally so either touchpad or mouse scrolling feels awkward for me

- You need an extra click on another window before you can interact with it

- No focus-follows-mouse (there used to be 3rd party plugins but those seem to be gone now)

- While basic split screen tiling works and you can set up a global kb shortcut to move windows to left/right of the screen, Firefox seems to completely ignore those

- If you're running multiple displays macos for some reason always picks the most awkward display to open new windows in

- I really miss being able to grab and resize windows using a modifier key like in XFCE

I'm sure I'd get used to many of those, but the lack of focus-follows-mouse and easy window manipulation are the big one for me and I don't think that'll change much. Actually I think those were already pain points when I last tried out Mac OS in the late PPC days.

There's of course plenty of things that I like, especially the tight integration with my iphone and trackpad gestures (although I'm not sure how ergonomic using the trackpad all day is).

I was hoping it could become my main driver at home, but now I ordered a Ryzen mini PC for that.

edit: Oh, I completely forgot the biggest deal breaker for me at the moment. As of now the GUI version of Emacs (either downloaded through brew or from https://emacsformacosx.com/) doesn't work. MacOS simply refuses to start the binary.

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