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DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

dontbubble.us

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Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#71

Post by thesz »

quinndupont wrote: post #57
yanw wrote: post #35

Shame on DDG for endorsing this nonsense. I understand the quest for a larger userbase but please don't use this sort of FUD that is being peddled by those who don't understand the technical aspects of search and are trying to sell their books. A search engine's prime function is to filter the millions of results for each query down to the most relevant results for each individual user, and never the same 10 results…

I think you missed the point. Yes DDG ranks, but it may rank differently. Of course, there is an implicit slam on them here: instead of showing you what you want the vast majority of the time, they show you other stuff. This is good on occasion (so you don't live in an echo chamber), but if this was all the time it would mean lower quality search results for simple things.

That's quite a point.

My own standing is that most of the time you need what you have to have to complete task at hand. Then you could go at YouTube and refresh "Recomendations" to your heart content.

The other way around is to wreak havoc to important parts of your life.

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#72

Post by kitsune_ »

yanw wrote: post #35

Shame on DDG for endorsing this nonsense. I understand the quest for a larger userbase but please don't use this sort of FUD that is being peddled by those who don't understand the technical aspects of search and are trying to sell their books. A search engine's prime function is to filter the millions of results for each query down to the most relevant results for each individual user, and never the same 10 results…

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

"There is little difference between personalization and the relevance of search results."

Even if you're a Sailor Moon fan, you might actually be looking for information about the rock rotating around this planet when searching for "moon". In the same vein I might be a liberal but be looking for a multitude of opposing views and ideas when googling "core values of NRA members".

Oh btw, we engineers, our algorithms, aren't smart enough to foretell people's inclinations based on their past habits, we also can't read minds. The increasing use of personalization as a factor for relevancy will, imho, lead to user dissatisfaction, precisely because they make shoddy assumptions.

Believe it or not, but some people also want to be surprised and learn new things. YES. We exist!

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#73

Post by qjz »

yanw wrote: post #65
qjz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, your argument is that it's bullshit because it's true?

It's bullshit because search is filtering and the filtering done by search is being exaggerated by those who peddle this bullshit.

I expect my search to be faithful to the terms I enter. If the results aren't satisfactory, I'll narrow the search with additional terms. Withholding information based on some guess at my political leanings is dishonest. I'd be appalled if a librarian did it; why should I expect less from a search engine?

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#74

Post by _delirium »

bad_user wrote: post #69
qjz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, your argument is that it's bullshit because it's true?

I see it as being a straw man argument. The article makes the assumption that personalized search results are bad for you, then goes on exemplifying it, but does not say or demonstrate in any way why personalized search results are bad, especially since it doesn't give any context about the person making those queries. Search ranking is a matter of context. " Egypt " does not mean anything, other than the name of a c…

It's true that sometimes I'm looking for specific things, but other times I'm searching to get an idea of "what's out there", to fill gaps in my knowledge and make sure I'm appraised of what's going on in the world. It'd be nice to at least have some control over what kinds of searches I'm doing. For example, if I search for my own name, what I want to know is something like: what are the most common search results other people get when they search for my name. The same is usually true if I'm doing "related work" type searching for research; I explicitly want to find stuff outside my immediate area of specialization, in order to make sure I'm not missing anything that other people would've expected me to cover.

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#75

Post by speckledjim »

mkr-hn wrote: post #53
speckledjim wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spreading FUD about tracking search terms etc didn't seem to help DDG last time. I doubt this will have any effect either. DDG: If you want to grow, don't keep attacking the big search engines with FUD that only a miniscule % of people care about.

The February DDG newsletter reported growth in January from 2.5m searches to 5m. I don't think DDG needs FUD to grow.

http://duckduckgo.com/traffic.html

Searches per day in Feb average = 197,687

Searches per day in May average = 205,759

FUD certainly won't grow DDG out of the extreme niche it's in.

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#76

Post by Revisor »

yanw wrote: post #51
Revisor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search queries have different purposes. Personalization based on my preferences and past search works wonders for known-item seeking and for re-finding. But for exploratory search and exhaustive search personalization works as an echo chamber (or filter bubble if you will) . Then there is the problem of change and inertia. People change, their preferences vary in time. Personalization has an inertia that causes the r…

All can be remedied by tweaking the algorithms and that happens all the time, you can also use a certain vertical directly for certain type queries (scholar search etc). The same way that what a user might enjoy can be inferred the inverse of that can be used as a signal in the algorithm as well. Personalization is just relevance and all is just a matter of tuning.

I agree, it can be remedied by better algorithms - such that can recognize when I'm doing a search for a known item and when I'm performing exploratory search. In the first case, personalize away, in the second case, please show me everything.

The challenge is that people switch very quickly between these search modes and don't even think about it.

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#77

Post by Matt_Cutts »

dhimes wrote: post #54
yanw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's a non-issue, and by the way Google probably uses much more that 57 'inputs' (signals) to determine relevance. Personalization is just a different term for relevant results and this is just FUD, the source of which is people who don't understand the technical aspects.

I would agree with you if there was a button I could click to turn it off. Their algorithms aren't infallible by any means. Plus, ultimately they are a business and trying to sell, so they are going to eventually skew results towards things they think I may be willing to buy, rather than things I want to know. I think G is more susceptible than MS, but only because MS does make a living selling other stuff. I'm not s…

Turn off personalization by adding "&pws=0" to the end of your search url on Google. You can also use incognito mode in Chrome.

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#78

Post by Uchikoma »

epi0Bauqu wrote: post #63
Kylekramer wrote: post #59

It is well known that people seek out information that reinforces their own beliefs. And while it may not be ideal for an enlightened population, why should Google/Bing fight this natural inclination? Their job is to ultimately give their users what they are searching for, not challenge their users' opinions. Especially since there are tons of benefits to personalized search, and it may be hard to not throw the baby…

There are other options, i.e. opt-in vs opt-out, separate sections (only show in sidebar), instant on/off, and overall greater transparency.

Surfing in anonymous mode with Chrome should work as an opt-out, or shouldn't it?

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#79

Post by yanw »

qjz wrote: post #73
yanw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bullshit because search is filtering and the filtering done by search is being exaggerated by those who peddle this bullshit.

I expect my search to be faithful to the terms I enter. If the results aren't satisfactory, I'll narrow the search with additional terms. Withholding information based on some guess at my political leanings is dishonest. I'd be appalled if a librarian did it; why should I expect less from a search engine?

The 'political leaning results' are just a tool the author used to try to explained his (ill-informed) point, there are no evidence to any such degree of personalization specially not to any 'bubble' inducing extent, it's all very sensationalistic.

And for the record the political example was about facebook wall.

Re: DuckDuckGo: Escape your search engine filter bubble

#80

Post by speckledjim »

epi0Bauqu wrote: post #63
Kylekramer wrote: post #59

It is well known that people seek out information that reinforces their own beliefs. And while it may not be ideal for an enlightened population, why should Google/Bing fight this natural inclination? Their job is to ultimately give their users what they are searching for, not challenge their users' opinions. Especially since there are tons of benefits to personalized search, and it may be hard to not throw the baby…

There are other options, i.e. opt-in vs opt-out, separate sections (only show in sidebar), instant on/off, and overall greater transparency.

There's obvious opt-out things for the miniscule amount of people who care.

Exactly the same as the "search term leakage" rubbish.

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