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Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

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Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asking me if "End to End encryption" protects the data while at rest on each end? If yes, please do your research on what that term means.

No no! I'm very aware of what E2E means, etc., I'm asking if you have supporting evidence for this statement: > the Find My app itself or other device features almost certainly leack this information to Apple I asked if there was any evidence pointing to this leakage, I'd like to know if it's happened before and I'm unaware of it.

I can't seem to find traces of the original statements that went into much greater detail, but there is one case that sticks out, that of an Australian teen who accessed an internal system at Apple through unauthorized means and was on a Mac while doing so: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-teen-h...

The statements i recall strongly indicated that Apple was aware of many machine identifiers which would have been impossible to log otherwise such as the serial number of the system itself and other such revealing information.

If that is not convincing enough, there are plenty of tales of proprietary, unexposed APIs within the Apple stack itself that "ping home" with sensitive device information, the most recent example being one where any executable on a mac was deliberately blocked (a bug) until validated on Apples end.

If you are looking for a smoking gun, i'm afraid, i cannot provide that, and i apologize if that's what you took away from my comment.

On the other hand, as someone who understands software and the systems here, you may draw your own conclusions, given the two examples above on how hard it would be for someone at Apple, with a bit of motivation and access to do precisely this, ie, derive the information (inferred or direct) about device location through the find my app or other deeper layers of the stack where its stored, or, use the find my network to find devices such as MacBooks that they suspect were involved in activity their security teams dislike.

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#72

Seems unlikely but I’m very hopeful about Apple sneakily creating the world's largest mesh network. Slowly, but surely adding functionality to the mesh. First, tiny packets piggy- backed through wifi/wireless carriers. Seamlessly sharing wifi passwords with friends. Next, peer-peer downloads without any network. Specifically for sharing public, location sensitive, and cacheable data through UWB without any network in…

They have total control over their OS they can do whatever they want until they cross the line and someone sues them.

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is literally about about locking people even further into a closed ecosystem by increasing its utility. (And I say this as an Apple fan.)

It's a bit baffling that people are aware of anti consumer practices yet are fans. From the book "The Element", I imagine you(or anyone buying Apple) think you are a unique individual? Is it possible to snap out of it by using your rational, thinking part of your brain?

The rational thinking part of my brain says Apple provides more values for money than competing options, in the real world I live in.

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is literally about about locking people even further into a closed ecosystem by increasing its utility. (And I say this as an Apple fan.)

It's a bit baffling that people are aware of anti consumer practices yet are fans. From the book "The Element", I imagine you(or anyone buying Apple) think you are a unique individual? Is it possible to snap out of it by using your rational, thinking part of your brain?

This comment is so confused that I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make beyond trying and failing to insult people. But just in case this wasn't just the cat walking across your keyboard: yes, it's possible to be a fan of something that provides infinitely more value than the alternative while simultaneously not being perfect. I can't think of anything that _is_ perfect and has fans.

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#75
post #70
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forget, does Apple and SpaceX get along? Seems obvious.

I feel like the lack of CarPlay on Tesla says no. But I have no actual idea.

They also don’t support Android Auto.

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#76
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and your stuff through their devices, privately. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet...

The part here is: "A nearby stranger's iPhone, with no interaction from its owner, will pick up the signal, check its own location, and encrypt that location data using the public key it picked up from the laptop." This dialog makes it unclear whether the stranger has agency to turn this on or off. My definition of privacy includes the ability to have NO traffic, while apple has a different definition.

> This dialog makes it unclear whether the stranger has agency to turn this on or off.

I believe they do.

Looking at my iOS 14.5 settings, I can (1) turn off Find My completely, (2) turn off "Find My network" to opt out of the Find My network, and (3) turn off "Item Safety Alerts" that tell you when an unexpected item is travelling with you (and possibly being used to track you).

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#77

The "find my" program is interesting to me because, for the first time (as far as I'm aware) it uses your devices to provide utility to Apple (to resell). They remain serious about privacy, but there's still something invasive about it I think they've never done before and always seemed implicitly positioned against.

It provides value to Apple by providing value to users. As a user I want to find my lost stuff, Apple now lets me find my stuff without any real cost to me to do some passive scanning.

And it does so using devices it does not own. In a hypothetical case I might be receiving value that is created using your device. I think that's okay, but fairly new ground for Apple (besides perhaps Wifi mapping?).

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#78

Seems unlikely but I’m very hopeful about Apple sneakily creating the world's largest mesh network. Slowly, but surely adding functionality to the mesh. First, tiny packets piggy- backed through wifi/wireless carriers. Seamlessly sharing wifi passwords with friends. Next, peer-peer downloads without any network. Specifically for sharing public, location sensitive, and cacheable data through UWB without any network in…

> Seems unlikely but I’m very hopeful about Apple sneakily creating the world's largest mesh network. Slowly, but surely adding functionality to the mesh.

In your hypothetical, I'm curious how you'd see this comparing to Amazon Sidewalk in size?

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#79
post #78

Seems unlikely but I’m very hopeful about Apple sneakily creating the world's largest mesh network. Slowly, but surely adding functionality to the mesh. First, tiny packets piggy- backed through wifi/wireless carriers. Seamlessly sharing wifi passwords with friends. Next, peer-peer downloads without any network. Specifically for sharing public, location sensitive, and cacheable data through UWB without any network in…

> Seems unlikely but I’m very hopeful about Apple sneakily creating the world's largest mesh network. Slowly, but surely adding functionality to the mesh. In your hypothetical, I'm curious how you'd see this comparing to Amazon Sidewalk in size?

Disclaimer: I work at Amazon, but not at all related to Sidewalk, or devices.

Amazon seems to be roughly in the ballpark of 1 BB devices sold based on [0] and [1]. Meanwhile, Apple seems to be in the ballpark of 3 BB devices sold (iOS + watchOS + macOS).

> I'm curious how you'd see this comparing to Amazon Sidewalk in size?

Their future growth curves (regarding devices "in the wild") are not very clear to me. Although, it seems to me devices stuck in homes (i.e. Amazon's), will be less effective at finding lost items, transferring data, etc; compared with devices that locomote with their humans (i.e. Apple's).

Ideally, I hope they create a standard and create a single giant network. After all, Ring data eventually needs to hit an iOS device.

Note: These are all legacy articles, so I did a reasonable projection. I'm probably overestimating for Amazon, and underestimating for Apple, but I have no idea.

[0] https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/1/21/21070402/amazon-ring-sa... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-reveals-alexa-sales-2... [3] https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/13/how-apple-has-hit...

Re: Apple’s Find My network now offers new third-party finding experiences

#80
Wow, just learned this has an anti-stalking feature, which notifies you if a tag has been found in your vicinity and appears to be following you around. [1]

However, you only get a notification if you have an Apple device...so it's still possible to stalk someone using this technology if they're on Android.

1: https://youtu.be/kEhtM7YGSQc?t=656

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