How people learn to become resilient (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#71

Post by iliketosleep » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #48

ericmcer wrote: post #13

In this sense, privilege just lets you circumvent having to learn to be resilient. You can choose the amount of stressors you want to let in. I have two friends who come from wealthy backgrounds, one is putting in 70-80hour weeks doing residency at a hospital, the other doesn't work and couldn't deal with the bay area rental market, so their parents purchased them a $1.5m home. I guess what I am getting at is there i…

I would argue that privilege comes in other forms than wealth, and at a certain point no amount of wealth might make up for a rough childhood, or broken relationships, and those things can drive people too. Some people don’t work 70-hour weeks because of the money, or even because they enjoy it, but because on some level they are broken and it’s an acceptable “addiction” that lets them avoid confronting their inner d…

You make a good point. It's interesting how people seem to automatically equate hard work as automatically being a positive (or even as some kind of morality). In reality, without fully understanding an individual's true motivations, it's hard to make any kind of proper judgement.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#72

Post by chrisweekly » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

iliketosleep wrote: post #71

oceanplexian wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that privilege comes in other forms than wealth, and at a certain point no amount of wealth might make up for a rough childhood, or broken relationships, and those things can drive people too. Some people don’t work 70-hour weeks because of the money, or even because they enjoy it, but because on some level they are broken and it’s an acceptable “addiction” that lets them avoid confronting their inner d…

You make a good point. It's interesting how people seem to automatically equate hard work as automatically being a positive (or even as some kind of morality). In reality, without fully understanding an individual's true motivations, it's hard to make any kind of proper judgement.

Yes. See also a great little book from ages ago called "The Hacker Ethic" by Pekka Himanen, which examines and critiques this "Protestant work ethic".

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#73

Post by inv13 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 10:09 PM UTC

I had the same nearly the same situation, like 70% to 80% of the sandwich kid mentioned in the beginning.

Its impossible to read a summary of what have happened with me, because it would be so long that I would never end.

A short summary of the beginning would be something like this: I just never accepted anything coming from adults, teachers. I saw when they said something to me, than the next second do the very opposite. And I realized that when my parents divorced, that everything that I learned from them needs to be erased. They could not tell why they divorced, a specific reason. Because it never really is about one thing from what I can tell now. It was not something I come up with, it was more like a realization, hard truth, something that hit me hard, or something around these lines. And then I just proceeded to build up a mental image about the world from the ground up. I guess we all do that while growing up, but I really just couldn't accept anything anyone told me to do, or think the way they want me to.

Cant say that I 'am a very successful person. Sometimes I can be spot on, even on very large scale questions, using my own version of the world. I was able to make a really good investment choice, when everyone was shitting themselves, and running around like a beheaded chicken that the world was about to end. 2008 financial crisis and Covid. (I was in 7th grade in 2008 with really shitty grades) And sometimes I miss by a mile, usually when around topics where feelings must be involved. That is the part that I am trying to get better since I've realized.

I think its more about some things can make you or brake you. Resilience is understanding the real reasons why something happened. Like someone got angry at work when I asked him to send some documents for me. If the person is rude and got, to some extent angry at me, than I could translate that as that person not liking me, or that the person has some difficulties at home. In the first choice we could grind on about why is that, what have I done wrong, where in the other, you just move on. At least in my experience.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#74

Post by type0 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

throwaway3b03 wrote: post #58

psychtrauma wrote: post #2

'Resilience', in this sense, is usually presented as a positive personal trait to be proud of. However, (after a lot of therapy), I see it more as a simple reflection of the undue trauma I faced and was required to handle.

We either read different articles, or have almost contradictory viewpoints. I have deep background in developmental trauma, developmental psychology, and trauma is in fact what destroys the resilience mentioned in the article. You don't become resilient due to going through trauma, you are resilient when your body is in a certain physiological state (which is reflected throughout, from brainwaves, to vagal tone, to d…

The impact of trauma is important, monoamine oxidase A is one of the genes that is often shaping the outcome.

https://news.ufl.edu/2019/07/how-genes-resilience-affect-syr...

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#75

Post by MisterBastahrd » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #28

newacct583 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow your conclusion here. So... you don't think that there are systemic problems worth correcting? Or you think there are, but you don't want to because the disadvantaged should just be resilient instead? It's one thing to say that there are alternative therapies to pulling down statues and burning shit in the street. It's rather another to reject the goals of a movement because you don't like their tactic…

The way leftists approach fixing systemic issues is fundamentally incompatible with actually changing anything. The smart leftists work towards positive change by doing disgusting things like engaging in compromise and working with people who aren’t ideologically pure; when they do such things they inadvertently reveal themselves to be something far more horrible, like a liberal or a progressive-but-not-progressive-e…

They're doing a damned poor job of being threatening given how popular they've been on a national political level in the US.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#76

Post by rednerrus » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

ceh123 wrote: post #31

kiba wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's what he's arguing. Systematic problems are worth correcting and shouldn't be ignored. The problem is that systematic problems requiring systematic solution doesn't provide a framework for individual behavior in the meantime. You can't wait for problems to get fixed. Even if you're working hard or contributing money to those that are working to get problems fixed, you're still stuck in whatever ci…

Yup, this is exactly what I was trying to say. Systemic critiques are absolutely necessary to improve society, but you can't live every day only in a systemic mindset because that will inevitably move your locus of control much farther outside yourself.

This is what I was trying to get at with my original post.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#77

Post by psychtrauma » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

Fellshard wrote: post #16

psychtrauma wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you are failing to consider those who faced trauma and failed to handle it. I would have previously agreed with you, and I think that is an important viewpoint that is useful to contemplate deeply. But, I now wish to reject the point of view that I should be proud because I faced my individual trauma somehow 'better' than those other people. Those other people shouldn't have faced that trauma either.

You reject it, sure. But you are providing no cogent reasons for doing so — merely saying 'I changed my mind' is no argument that will persuade others, unless you're expecting your prior trauma somehow credentials you to authoritatively create truth.

Indeed. I have no reason to argue and no real need to persuade others - I just wish to observe and live my truth.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#78

Post by challengly » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 12:49 AM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #48

ericmcer wrote: post #13

In this sense, privilege just lets you circumvent having to learn to be resilient. You can choose the amount of stressors you want to let in. I have two friends who come from wealthy backgrounds, one is putting in 70-80hour weeks doing residency at a hospital, the other doesn't work and couldn't deal with the bay area rental market, so their parents purchased them a $1.5m home. I guess what I am getting at is there i…

I would argue that privilege comes in other forms than wealth, and at a certain point no amount of wealth might make up for a rough childhood, or broken relationships, and those things can drive people too. Some people don’t work 70-hour weeks because of the money, or even because they enjoy it, but because on some level they are broken and it’s an acceptable “addiction” that lets them avoid confronting their inner d…

The greatest privilege is being born in the West in the modern day, to 2 loving parents. Even if poor, you already won the birth lottery compared to 99% of every human that ever lived. Other notable advantages: Intelligence. Attractiveness. Charisma.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#79

Post by runawaybottle » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #67

TameAntelope wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I don't think the twelve step program should be universally lauded such as it is. Does it help people? Absolutely. Could there be a better way? Probably.

hard to attack something that is already the status quo and free.

It’s not hard to attack it. Cold turkey strategies can be a recipe for disaster.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#80

Post by Fellshard » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

psychtrauma wrote: post #77

Fellshard wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You reject it, sure. But you are providing no cogent reasons for doing so — merely saying 'I changed my mind' is no argument that will persuade others, unless you're expecting your prior trauma somehow credentials you to authoritatively create truth.

Indeed. I have no reason to argue and no real need to persuade others - I just wish to observe and live my truth.

Then it is meaningless to communicate it to anyone else. But I don't think that's what you think; there's an internal contradiction there. I will leave it at that.