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Software development is a loser’s game

thehosk.medium.com

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Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#71

Post by eplanit »

terracatta wrote: post #28

> If we invert software development, the goal isn’t then to write code that works, it’s spending time on avoiding writing poor quality code and bugs. This line is packaged to sound really insightful, but is it? The goal of software development is to create software in support of some greater mission. That mission might be to make someone's life easier, to make money, to advance human knowledge, or many other things.…

Did Deepak Chopra write the article? It's like "when you're nowhere you're 'now here'". It seems so clever... at first.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#72

Post by lmilcin »

> Amateur software developers dislike (...)

I think that's wrong way to put it. I think the difference between pro and amateur might be, even if both dislike something, pro will understand he needs to do it properly anyway and why.

For example, I dislike writing unit tests. In many years there has not been a single time the unit test saved me from anything.

I tend to be very pedantic when writing code extremely careful when modifying code written by other people. I don't rely on tests to tell me I have messed something because I know these tests written by a person with lesser work ethics cannot be trusted. So before I modify anything I do thorough investigation to understand what I am modifying, what my modification can possibly cause and whether it is not a problem.

If unit tests were done correctly (ie. up to the standard that would let me trust them) then yes, they would be helpful. But it requires only a single developer on the project, even one that has already departed, and you can no longer just trust tests to catch a problem. Also I am yet to see well tested code -- one that documents and thoroughly proves all detectable aspects of unit contract.

So I understand I am paying the price for other people not making tests correctly but I still have to write them nonetheless. I hope you understand why I can BOTH dislike it and be professional about it, at the same time.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#73

Post by hoskinator »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #45
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #20

An ask of anyone reading this article: Please don’t let yourself become a smug or cynical programmer. Too many programmers read articles like this and assume that they are the 20% of good programmers while everyone who disagrees with them is the 80% of amateur developers: > I have worked in software development for 20 years, worked on many projects with many software developers. I estimate 80 percent of software deve…

Maybe I'm weird but I think I am pretty average at programming. Not great, not terrible. I get things done, more slowly and with more bugs than some, more quickly and with fewer bugs than others. Of course most employers probably aren't looking for an "average" programmer, but I haven't found that they usually ask me to rank myself relative to others.

I disagree, solid programmers should be the core of the team. That's how you make solid progress and deliver projects on time.

Programming is about doing the fundamentals well and consistently delivering

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#74

Post by at_a_remove »

This is one of those narrowly-focused articles that says it talks about a big topic ("software development") is about a much narrower portion of that topic.

Most of my programs are for ETL, error-scanning, packaging up some manual tasks, and so on. I am in the long tail of dark matter developers. I do not have DevOps because it makes no sense to have DevOps where I am. I am solo, there's nobody else to code review with, and so I chug along like I have for the past forty years -- "yeah, that function looks like crap, I can fix that."

There's a lot of people like me out there. We solve problems. We pick up a program we wrote ten years ago to make sure it is still usable before running it. We do not "deploy."

I think we need some new vocabulary about the business of programming, because this narrow focus sounds like it ought to include the guy who makes a custom mortgage calculator for the local credit union in Visual Basic, but it really isn't about him or what he does, and it might not be bad to remember that he and I are out there, chugging away.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#75

Post by zeptonaut22 »

cableshaft wrote: post #41
Fred27 wrote: post #12

That article taught me more more about tennis than about software development.

Also seems like it would apply to most competitive games. Like I can easily see the same concept applying to Chess. Looks like this is the Loser's Game essay he mentioned, btw. Also looks like in that essay, it's less about tennis and more about basically doing what the OP did, but applying the metaphor to investing: https://www.trendfollowing.com/whitepaper/the_losers_game.pd...

I've found a lot of lessons can be drawn from competitive games with tight feedback loops and applied outside of those domains. There's something to be learned from these areas where there are a whole bunch of people trying very hard to get good at something (e.g. chess, Rocket League), especially with regards to how to build a mindset around failure and how to review your mistakes.

The hard part in all of these is finding the right "hooks" in these pursuits that tend to be more obvious in competitive games. How do you "record your performance" when programming or holding meetings about business strategy? How do you review that recording after the fact? What criteria do you use to evaluate success and failure?

It's certainly not as easy to do this with "games" that lack a clear scope like startups, but I've found regularly reviewing your performance ("Did this meeting have a clear agenda before starting?") and building checklists for what practices lead to success is immensely helpful.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#76

Post by commandlinefan »

terracatta wrote: post #28

> If we invert software development, the goal isn’t then to write code that works, it’s spending time on avoiding writing poor quality code and bugs. This line is packaged to sound really insightful, but is it? The goal of software development is to create software in support of some greater mission. That mission might be to make someone's life easier, to make money, to advance human knowledge, or many other things.…

> The goal of software development is to create software in support of some greater mission

If that's the goal - the only goal - then all code is equal, and it doesn't matter how it's written. So... go crazy? Use global variables and goto statements? Hardcode path names and don't bother with build scripts? Writing software that works is challenging, but writing software that can be safely modified is even more so.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#77

Post by vsareto »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #45
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #20

An ask of anyone reading this article: Please don’t let yourself become a smug or cynical programmer. Too many programmers read articles like this and assume that they are the 20% of good programmers while everyone who disagrees with them is the 80% of amateur developers: > I have worked in software development for 20 years, worked on many projects with many software developers. I estimate 80 percent of software deve…

Maybe I'm weird but I think I am pretty average at programming. Not great, not terrible. I get things done, more slowly and with more bugs than some, more quickly and with fewer bugs than others. Of course most employers probably aren't looking for an "average" programmer, but I haven't found that they usually ask me to rank myself relative to others.

Their idea of average is going to be unique to that company. If they've got some objective test that ranks you accurately, they've got a multi-billion dollar process on their hands. If we had this test, we'd know what to train for, and we'd all become the average developer but write less bugs and better code. It'd become the standard test for developers.

In many cases, companies just want you to sell yourself and hear the right things. Most companies know they can't hire a senior FAANG developer for $110k.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#79

Post by parasubvert »

I’ve seen plenty of “amateurs” write unit tests, CI/CD, adhere to standards, pair program or deal with code reviews, etc.

Inevitably this has 100% to do with the culture of the work environment. Either those things are mandatory, enforced by both peers and management, or they’re optional.

This reads like a rant about a low discipline organization, where it’s impossible to change the culture, and thus easier to crap on those who don’t know any better.

Re: Software development is a loser’s game

#80

Post by commandlinefan »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #20

An ask of anyone reading this article: Please don’t let yourself become a smug or cynical programmer. Too many programmers read articles like this and assume that they are the 20% of good programmers while everyone who disagrees with them is the 80% of amateur developers: > I have worked in software development for 20 years, worked on many projects with many software developers. I estimate 80 percent of software deve…

> developers forget that the goal is to ship software and instead focus on doing everything the most correct

I'm far, far more frustrated by developers who focus only on shipping software and making dates by cutting corners wherever they can and leave everybody else to deal with their gigantic mess later.

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