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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#71

Post by tsimionescu »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #20
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

>"we should allow developing countries" Not to pick on you, but I often hear this frasing in the 'first world' and surely you dont 'allow' or 'disallow' internal policies to an sovereign nation? It sounds like a Freudianslip or something, the reality is that its easy to bully or bribe officials in developing nations.

I get where you're coming from, but in this case they are completely right to use this phrasing, with exactly the connotation you are talking about: the status quo is that the first world is NOT allowing these countries to run their affairs as they want internally.

That is, any developing country is presented with 2 options by the developed world: either accept 'free trade' (allow foreign investors to buy up the local industry, commit to IP laws, don't apply tariffs) or no one will be allowed to trade with you or send you aid.

In the meantime, powerful countries are taking numerous protectionist measures in their key industries, since that is the only way to actually be prosperous.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#72

Post by osacial »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

That's a complete nonsense on how things work in reality. The biggest problem for Africa is that MARKET of anything that they are selling is in Europe and US. They can demand anything they want(which is simple racket and anyone despises these things in business), and it all will simply end with some startup in Cali who will start to grow cocoa beans in vertical farms or some other African country will become cocoa exporter Nr1 in the world.

ANY developing European country in history started with offering raw materials and very quickly invested into manufacturing and producing good quality products. There are no obstacles for Ghana to do the same. At the moment you can see some poor European countries with industry and skilled workforce and they all have poor results because of corruption. Something tells me, that it will be the same for Ghana.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#73

Post by andrepd »

barry-cotter wrote: post #45
zorked wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any specific knowledge about Ghanaian industry or is this just your opinion? Can you provide some sources for your claims?

Why would the Ghanaian government be any better at economic planning than the Argentinian or Indian ones? Sometimes industrial policy “works”, as in South Korea or Japan. But we have no strong reason to believe either would have failed to develop without government help. Hong Kong didn’t need it. People talk about the successes of industrial planning a lot but Argentina and India aren’t the only countries to piss awa…

Maybe you would want to research what Japan and South Korea have in common and what Argentina has different. Hint: it involves something that starts with U and ends with SA

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#74

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

oblio wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

Romania still has at least one local supermarket chain I can think of: Oncos. I’m not sure how many locations they have outside of Transylvania, though.

Sadly, Romania’s competitiveness in building its own businesses in Europe is weakened by being left out of Schengen. Considering that Mark Rutte’s party just won reelection in the Dutch elections, sadly nothing is likely to change on that front for years – he is the biggest force vetoing Romanian accession to Schengen.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#75

Post by andrepd »

arethuza wrote: post #59
m12k wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Saudi royal family is busy buying as much of Silicon Valley as they can, to ensure they can still live atop a mountain of cash once the oil runs out. As for the rest of the country - yeah, they are royally fucked (pun intended) since no other industry than oil was ever developed.

They seem to be trying to develop their tourist industry - I keep getting adverts for holidays there!

It's possibly one of countries in the world I'm least interested in visiting.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#76

Post by meepmorp »

bildung wrote: post #66
Shivetya wrote: post #8

Explain LID [0] which is effectively a tax applied to every ton of cocoa sold of which most is paid to the farmers. However I think Ghana is in the wrong here because extorting other nations to give them anything free of charge by withholding trade goods will simply means that the trade goods will eventually be sourced elsewhere. Regardless what you think about rich vs poor, medicine vs goods, and such, IP is propert…

> to deprive another of their rights is never a good idea. (no whataboutism please). What about access to cocoa not being a right?

they said no whataboutism, fam

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#77

Post by nerdponx »

osacial wrote: post #72
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

That's a complete nonsense on how things work in reality. The biggest problem for Africa is that MARKET of anything that they are selling is in Europe and US. They can demand anything they want(which is simple racket and anyone despises these things in business), and it all will simply end with some startup in Cali who will start to grow cocoa beans in vertical farms or some other African country will become cocoa ex…

Demanding a greater % of the final value of a good is a racket?

And you really think that Ghana's cocoa superiority will be upended by some American startup? That's laughable, and certainly not enough of a credible threat to keep Ghana under the boot of economic imperialism.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#78

Post by emodendroket »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

This was Alexander Hamilton's idea and was in fact largely the US strategy in large part.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#79

Post by m_mueller »

m000 wrote: post #32

I really hope Ivory Coast will join Ghana on this, as they did for the LID bonus case. Together they account for over 2/3 of cocoa production. So, they can pretty much reshape the cocoa/chocolate market and break out of colonialistic trade agreements for the benefit of their people.

As a Swiss, I hope the same. I find this IP waiver blockage horrid - it should be in the interest of everyone to try to extinguish this disease worldwide, as quickly as possible, to reduce the mutation risk as much as possible. Hats off to Ghana!

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#80

Post by enriquto »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So much like we allow children time to learn in school before we expect them to compete in the job market, we should allow developing countries to employ protectionistic policies

This sounds a bit paternalistic and condescending. I guess that first and foremost the "first world" should stop financing horrible dictatorships and wars in the ex-colonies. That would be a good, honest start.

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