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Wayland in 2021

shibumi.dev

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Re: Wayland in 2021

#71

Post by dmytrish »

codewiz wrote: post #37
dmytrish wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a Wayland problem, ibus does not work in KDE even on X11.

Uh? I've been using ibus with mozc for Japanese input on KDE for the past 3 years.

Do you use ibus input methods only?

In my case, I wanted to keep my configured xkb keyboard layouts + I wanted to be able to use ibus in parallel for CJK.

Ok, there must be a problem with *my* KDE setup: when I try to disable KDE keyboard layouts, KDE does not persist changes to the next session: when I log in next time, KDE keyboard layouts are enabled again and interfere with ibus.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#72

Post by solarkraft »

tyfon wrote: post #52
gurkendoktor wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides security concerns, mixed-DPI setups are such a major pain point with X11 that many people who use a laptop with additional screens would probably switch to Wayland just for that alone. That's a large demographic.

Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well? I mainly use Linux so I don't know, but one of my work laptops have windows on it and it freaks out every time I connect it to a 4k monitor. At least in linux I can use triggers and xrandr [1] to manage it even if it's not pretty, never figured out how to do it automatically in windows. Edit: I am using KDE/Qt apps for 99% of my gui stuff. Gnome etc might be worse. [1] htt…

Works perfectly on Wayfire and I assume Sway.

I briefly tried out Gnome and KDE, with the former "meh" (no fractional scaling, scaling glitches when dragging between displays) and the latter garbage (couldn't find scaling settings at all, so nothing is readable on the laptop display).

Widows is between "okay" and "nice" (somewhat fractional scaling, glitches between displays, some wrong scalings, but it's rare).

I haven't tried macOS yet, but expect it to be flawless, like or slightly better than the experience on Wayfire.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#73

Post by solarkraft »

vially wrote: post #55
tyfon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well? I mainly use Linux so I don't know, but one of my work laptops have windows on it and it freaks out every time I connect it to a 4k monitor. At least in linux I can use triggers and xrandr [1] to manage it even if it's not pretty, never figured out how to do it automatically in windows. Edit: I am using KDE/Qt apps for 99% of my gui stuff. Gnome etc might be worse. [1] htt…

> Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well? This works today out-of-the-box in Wayland as long as the applications are Wayland native (e.g.: not being run through XWayland).

This is a major pain with the current generation of Electron apps, but luckily the newest version supports Wayland.

HiDPI is also in the works for XWayland, but it looks complicated and still a few months out.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#74

Post by opan »

curt15 wrote: post #32
foobar33333 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is basically dead at this point, no support for standards that have been around for years. And now they are including malware in their cards to slow down unapproved calculations.

CUDA is an industry standard, and AMD's lack of support is why NVIDIA enjoys a monopoly in the deep learning community.

It's proprietary. People being vendor-locked into a proprietary thing doesn't mean everyone can or should support it.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#75

Post by tinus_hn »

sprash wrote: post #70
scaladev wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a happy Wayland user, and have been for a long time. There are many more out there. You don't often hear us because we don't spend every waking hour shitting on Xorg and praising Wayland for how good it is (maybe we should?) >I wonder if it will ever reach the adoption level of x11 It will, considering that Xorg is effectively no longer maintained and its developers have switched to working on Wayland protocols…

What is the process to become a release manager for X11 without forking it? I assume you can't just walk in there and say "I'll do that".

I assume it starts with showing you’re up to it by putting in the work. You don’t need to be the release manager to contribute patches.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#77

Post by distances »

ucosty wrote: post #29
shmerl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect them to ever work properly. Basically, if you care about good Wayland user experience and proper desktop integration, you should be using AMD or Intel GPU already. Waiting for Nvidia to fix this mess is pointless. Nvidia will be DOA as long as they refuse to upstream their driver or to support Nouveau to begin with. And they didn't show any interest for years.

Easier said than done, given it's nearly impossible to buy AMD GPUs at the moment (and has been for a while now)

Indeed, I was planning on updating my graphics card this year. Looks now like it'll happen maybe in 2022.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#78

Post by reidrac »

If this was 20 years ago, when I was kind of starting with Linux, I would love it: lots of possibilities and customisation.

But the truth is that I don't have time for all that in 2021. When XFCE supports Wayland and I get a good experience out the box, I may stop using X11.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#79

Post by codewiz »

tinus_hn wrote: post #75
sprash wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the process to become a release manager for X11 without forking it? I assume you can't just walk in there and say "I'll do that".

I assume it starts with showing you’re up to it by putting in the work. You don’t need to be the release manager to contribute patches.

But who will review your patches, if all the core devs have already moved on to Wayland?

Re: Wayland in 2021

#80

Post by solarkraft »

colordrops wrote: post #5

Is it still the case that Nvidia drivers don't work with Wayland?

The question is flawed, but I get what you mean.

Wayland the protocol has very little to do with graphics drivers (it's just about getting window content to compositors). It's just that the display server (X server or wayland compositor) uses a set of agreed upon kernel APIs (DRI) to render and display things on the screen, which Nvidia refuses to fully implement (GBM vs.EGLStreams). The X server has extra code to support this, but many wayland compositors don't. Semi-recently Nvidia (in the form of Erik Kurzinger) has started contributing such special treatment code to Gnome and KDE. A major hold out is wlroots, the maintainer of which refuses special handling code for proprietary components (https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html), but recently there has been a 3rd party contribution for an EGLStreams backend.

Additionally the Xwayland team are right in the middle of merging code to allow specific acceleration of XWayland windows and Nvidia and the wlroots team are working on building a new memory allocation solution based on Vulkan that will hopefully finally solve the EGLStreams debacle once and for all.

So: It kind of works and is improving fairly rapidly.

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