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Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

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Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#71
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a 'broken mess'. It is an 'engineered mess'. The difference is in intent.

Framing it this way is probably inaccurate, and if inaccurate, unhelpful. From decades of observing the system, it seems extremely unlikely to me that it was deliberately engineered to be this way. Rather, different parts of it grew and changed organically and the parts and changes that benefitted moneyed interests in power stayed, while those that did not were discarded. It does not take a deliberate will behind som…

No one argues that the California or Texas power grids were geared to be unreliable and fail, but they were deliberately engineered over the years in specific ways for specific reasons.

Our medical system is no different. Insurers developed byzantine claims departments and custom plans as a way to make medical coding complicated and error prone for the purpose of denying claims due to error. They setup private panels and doctors to reviews claims and treatment plans with the explicit purpose of denying claims as not medically necessary.

The system is designed to intimidate, overwhelm, and confuse and it's stacked against both the customer and the medical provider.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#72

I was once told by a pharmacy tech that they couldn't tell me the price of a vaccine until after I got it.

"And I can't determine if I can pay you until after I know the cost"

Or "I will reveal the price that I pay you for the shot only after you give me the shot"

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#73
post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

I just got a $3k bill in the mail for my 6 month old son’s delivery. This is about 4 months after they incorrectly billed us for part of it. I have the money, but am thinking of fighting it even though it’s such a small sum. Either their accounting is incompetent or fraudulent, but either way, I’m annoyed enough to push back. I suspect they are trying to fleece as many people as possible to make up for the 2020 budge…

Always always always challenge it. In the American medical system is that the first bill is a first position. Expect to negotiate down, even with insurance, by at least 20%.

It’s time consuming, and confusing, and people will fob you off. But it’s necessary unless you want to get taken for a ride.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#74
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to reveal their prices now. It's part of a bill that the Trump administration passed in 2019: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/trump-releases-rule-requirin... From the article: > As of Jan. 1, hospitals must publicly reveal the negotiated rates reached with insurers for services, a landmark shift in the sector notoriously opaque when it comes to pricing. The data offer a peek behind the curtain, exposing pri…

The Affordable Care Act laid the framework to allow for this to happen, under the “Sunshine Provisions” [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2014/affordable-care-a...

Your article talks a lot about data but nothing about the negotiated rates with insurers.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#75
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have good insurance through a major company. My SO tripped, and hit their head on a curb on a busy road. I wasn't there, but by happenstance an EMT was there, witnessed the event, and came to offer aid. The EMT was concerned enough my SO ended up going to the hospital. Several scans, and a few hours later, my SO was discharged. I then got to spend something like 30 hours on the phone over the course of a couple of…

Always ask for the billing and procedure codes, also known as DGN, ICD10, and CPT/HPCPS Medical transcribing has a high error rate.

You're not wrong but this is a sign of a very broken system and the people least able to deal with it on even footing are people who may be in extreme pain or delirious from their injury.

The US healthcare system is immoral.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#76
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing it this way is probably inaccurate, and if inaccurate, unhelpful. From decades of observing the system, it seems extremely unlikely to me that it was deliberately engineered to be this way. Rather, different parts of it grew and changed organically and the parts and changes that benefitted moneyed interests in power stayed, while those that did not were discarded. It does not take a deliberate will behind som…

The intent is to maintain status-quo despite evidence that it's a broken system for medical users. Profits are being made based on the system we have. It's boards & c-suite executives keeping their fiduciary responsibility to their investors by lobbying against structural change. The intent is clearly there.

The intent is socially entrenched though - it's not just c-level executives calling for keeping the government out of healthcare. America has a real problem with anything that even smells like socialism or egalitarianism.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#77
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a 'broken mess'. It is an 'engineered mess'. The difference is in intent.

Framing it this way is probably inaccurate, and if inaccurate, unhelpful. From decades of observing the system, it seems extremely unlikely to me that it was deliberately engineered to be this way. Rather, different parts of it grew and changed organically and the parts and changes that benefitted moneyed interests in power stayed, while those that did not were discarded. It does not take a deliberate will behind som…

It does seem like it’s engineered towards making profits in extremely unethical ways?

I get they need to make money, but many times it seems like hospitals/doctors sent out bills just hoping people will pay.

Me, and my father used to have great union insurance (Cadillac plans). For years their were no problems. That started to change in the late 90’s.

1. I once got a $900 lab test from a hospital. They knew I had insurance. I called multiple times, and told don’t worry about it, but I still got the bills. Lather I saw what the the hospital charged my insurance company, and it was $90 for the test. I paid $9 for my premium. Isn’t in the hospitals interest to send out bills just hoping I might pay $900?

2. My mom is sent so many bills even though she has the same plan.

My point is there are no laws against sending out bills. Hospitals/doctors might not have it written down anywhere, but just send out a bill, and let the patient clean up the mess with their insurance company seems like a good strategy—for the heathens?

My mom had a bad tooth a few years ago. Went to her dentist, and he demanded cash upfront—conveniently on a Friday, and he knew she had great insurance. She paid because of the pain. She called up a few weeks later, and asked for a refund. She gave $2500, and insurance (Delta Dental) paid 90% of the bill. She kept calling the dr’s office, but always was told we need to contact the insurance company. I finally got on to a Delta Dental worker, and started to explain the situation. The work seemed to know exactly what I was trying to say. In thirty minutes, after Delta called the doctor, a highly apologetic money manger said we are sending off your check today. (I won’t publicly saw what the representative implied here of the doctor here.)

3. My father once went to Marin General for a routine hernia surgery. My father was beyond a hardened man. I saw him close to crying once, and it over taxes. Well he woke up after the surgery, and their was a Teddy Bear, and bouquet of flowers waiting for him. It wasn’t me, I told him. Anyways it was a mystery until he got his bill. Beyond the typical $12 Tylenol’s, there was a $330 psychological enrichment fee. Yes—that was the hospital charging my father, and insurance for the unasked for gift.

So it is it seems like it’s in their best financial interest to overcharge, do unethical things, and hope people just pay?

Is that engineered—-in my book yes.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#78
post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

> The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess.

That's why I got hospitalization-only insurance as soon as Trump allowed it... Obama-care was a joke... except for the pre-existing condition clause, maybe.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#79
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to blame you, but for the sake of anyone reading this -- you could absolutely have negotiated this down with the hospital by pleading financial hardship. I'm not trying to justify the system overall, but please don't take a $150k bill at face value, if you can't reasonably afford to pay it.

Hospitals' bar for reasonably afford is low, in my experience. They want proof that you make poverty line wages or below to write it off, below 300% of poverty line (around 38k) for reductions.

To totally write off, sure.

But they will often vastly reduce and/or over 0% interest long term payment plans.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#80
post #11

The US healthcare system is just a completely broken mess. When things go smooth, you are lucky! However, when you have a major procedure, life event or sickness things can get messy quick. We had a child 10 months ago, billing was screwed up by the hospital, then by insurance and we are still in process of getting it resolved. I have now spent at least 8 hours on the phone. I had a surgery, called insurance and veri…

The mess is by design.

Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patie...>

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