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Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

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Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#71

Post by lupire »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #55
jimmygrapes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do want ISPs to charge by the minute again? Because that's how we get there.

If ISPs tried than the public would pressure the government to drop the law. I calculate with 50% reduction from compression (After the required back-ups to comply with the law the number will be much worse for the ISP). That somone on VM 500Mbits using less than 10% of their connection for this could increase their log size by 200GB per day or 73TB over the 12 months.

Then you get throttled by your ISP

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#72

Post by lupire »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #35
mhh__ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK government is also even more lax than the US one with regard to its own citizens privacy.

I don't know, i think the mentality here is that the government is spying for you, not at you. Is it different in the us? And is that because all revelations revolve around the fact that citizens are being spied on?

Then why do people light british spy cameras on fire so often?

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#73

Post by danShumway »

DanBC wrote: post #61
linuxlizard wrote: post #6

Why didn't they just do what the US Gov did? Snoop but not tell anyone. Certainly would have saved them some grief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...

Because we, unlike the Americans, have article 8 protections.

The US has laws that should have prevented people from lying to Congress about PRISM, but it happened anyway.

Your Article 8 protections only matter as much as they're enforced and respected by the government. If Article 8 was the defense you imagine it to be, then the Investigatory Powers Bill wouldn't have passed in the first place.

It's very hard for me to square the text of Article 8 with a bill that allows warrantless access of every single IP address you visit. If that's consistent with the government's interpretation of the text, then it doesn't sound to me like the text is doing its job.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#74

Post by easytiger »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #58
cm2187 wrote: post #4

Is a datacentre considered an ISP in this respect? Between vpns and just remote desktoping into a VM, it seems trivial to circumvent to real criminals while being a privacy nightmare to the rest of the population. There is a probability 1.000 that this data will be abused.

What I want to know is: what happened? I always think of this event 70 years ago [0]: > "police obtained the fingerprints of every male aged 16 and over who had been in the vicinity of Blackburn on the night of 14-15 May to compare their fingerprints to those left at the crime scene by the perpetrator. ... a milestone in the history of forensic science; this being the first time a mass fingerprinting exercise had bee…

It's a good observation. Not unrelated I suspect io why society no longer cares about basic personal freedoms in the wake of covid panic. Basic private peaceful assembly with your family is now or recently has been a civil and in some places criminal offence.

Few seem to care

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#75

Post by nkellenicki »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #58
cm2187 wrote: post #4

Is a datacentre considered an ISP in this respect? Between vpns and just remote desktoping into a VM, it seems trivial to circumvent to real criminals while being a privacy nightmare to the rest of the population. There is a probability 1.000 that this data will be abused.

What I want to know is: what happened? I always think of this event 70 years ago [0]: > "police obtained the fingerprints of every male aged 16 and over who had been in the vicinity of Blackburn on the night of 14-15 May to compare their fingerprints to those left at the crime scene by the perpetrator. ... a milestone in the history of forensic science; this being the first time a mass fingerprinting exercise had bee…

Because it's abstract. The people aren't _actively_ having to do anything, such as hand over their records - it's happening away from them. It's hard to connect with abstract.

It's easier for people to connect with the reason _for_ doing it. Stop the terrorists, it may happen to you, etc. But the other way round is harder because it's invisible and you can live your life without caring. Even the warnings fall on deaf ears because "come on, you're being irrational" or "meh, doesn't affect me".

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#76

Post by amscanne »

nostromo wrote: post #13
linuxlizard wrote: post #6

Why didn't they just do what the US Gov did? Snoop but not tell anyone. Certainly would have saved them some grief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...

And then lie about it to congress. Repeatedly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwiUVUJmGjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNXVgYhPOc And then lying about lying about it. https://youtu.be/2d03yjXRPtI?t=262

(Relevant bit starts at ~6:00 in the first video)

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#77

Post by phendrenad2 »

lupire wrote: post #71
worldofmatthew wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ISPs tried than the public would pressure the government to drop the law. I calculate with 50% reduction from compression (After the required back-ups to comply with the law the number will be much worse for the ISP). That somone on VM 500Mbits using less than 10% of their connection for this could increase their log size by 200GB per day or 73TB over the 12 months.

Then you get throttled by your ISP

Then people move to Germany for the good internet.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#78

Post by brokenmachine »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #58
cm2187 wrote: post #4

Is a datacentre considered an ISP in this respect? Between vpns and just remote desktoping into a VM, it seems trivial to circumvent to real criminals while being a privacy nightmare to the rest of the population. There is a probability 1.000 that this data will be abused.

What I want to know is: what happened? I always think of this event 70 years ago [0]: > "police obtained the fingerprints of every male aged 16 and over who had been in the vicinity of Blackburn on the night of 14-15 May to compare their fingerprints to those left at the crime scene by the perpetrator. ... a milestone in the history of forensic science; this being the first time a mass fingerprinting exercise had bee…

The average person doesn't understand all our nerd worries.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#79

Post by brokenmachine »

null0pointer wrote: post #42
cm2187 wrote: post #4

Is a datacentre considered an ISP in this respect? Between vpns and just remote desktoping into a VM, it seems trivial to circumvent to real criminals while being a privacy nightmare to the rest of the population. There is a probability 1.000 that this data will be abused.

1. Trivial to bypass: Check 2. Further degrades the privacy of the general public: Check Just another day in internet legislation.

This often makes me think, what would happen if the authorities suddenly instituted something that actually wasn't trivial to bypass?

There are smart people working for them, why do they keep bringing in this stuff that doesn't actually have an effect against the baddies?

Is it possible that they are self-sabotaging because they actually realize they don't want to live in the world they are rushing headlong towards? Or is that giving them too much credit?

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#80

Post by [deleted] »

chrisseaton wrote: post #37
chiefalchemist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snooping is what your neighbor does. Surveillance is a whole other level. When your ISP is logging your every move for a year. And making it available to the government. Regardless of country, that's not snooping. It's surveillance. The fact that some of you accept snooping as being legitimate description simply proves my point about candy-coating it.

> When your ISP is logging your every move for a year. And making it available to the government. Regardless of country, that's not snooping. But that's just not true in British English. I don't know anything about you but your comments imply you're not British? If so, you'll just have to accept you don't know the meaning of these words in written British English. You're mistaken. I don't know what else to tell you?

[deleted]
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