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Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

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Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#71

Post by mushbino »

JPKab wrote: post #69
mushbino wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: where do you get the information that you're operating on? It sounds like you're just presenting opinion and you don't know a whole lot about Soviet history, gulags, or the US prison system. You do know that we have forced labor in the US and slavery is allowed under the 13th amendment if you are convicted of a crime. Prisoners are frequently lent out as cheap labor to private companies. https://en.w…

I would encourage you to look at the Soviet statistics on the Ukrainian famine, and ask yourself if any of them can be trusted, and why you have trusted them in the past. We're talking about a government that suppressed its own scientists to a point where a critical design flaw in a nuclear reactor was ignored until the world's worst nuclear accident occurred. And like a good little ideologue, you proceed with whatab…

You're setting up straw men and attributing lots of arguments to me that I'm not making. I spent a month in Kyiv last year, went to the Holodomor museum, and just finished a book about it not too long ago. The famine was very much a real thing. I've also been to Chernobyl, but I'm not sure why you're bringing any of this up.

Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#72

Post by throwawaysea »

ncmncm wrote: post #47
throwawaysea wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't think the fact that it was a copyright holder makes this outcome much better. These publishers are also subject to the mob pressure that comes from the long march through the institutions ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_ins... ). A few activist employees can force internal decision making, because everyone else might be afraid to speak against due to the threat of cancel…

There is no such thing as an antifa cell. An antifa cell would imply an antifa organization. But antifa is an activity, not an organization. Anyone can do antifa simply by opposing local fascist activity. It may be as simple as covering up fascist graffiti, or punching Richard Spencer. Some people do it with their friends, others alone. Every little bit helps, but more helps more. Try not to endanger yourself or non-…

Antifa is most definitely an organization. The claim that it is an activity and not an organization is just low-tier gaslighting. Here's hard evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_City_Antifa

Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#73

Post by ncmncm »

throwawaysea wrote: post #72
ncmncm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as an antifa cell. An antifa cell would imply an antifa organization. But antifa is an activity, not an organization. Anyone can do antifa simply by opposing local fascist activity. It may be as simple as covering up fascist graffiti, or punching Richard Spencer. Some people do it with their friends, others alone. Every little bit helps, but more helps more. Try not to endanger yourself or non-…

Antifa is most definitely an organization. The claim that it is an activity and not an organization is just low-tier gaslighting. Here's hard evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_City_Antifa

As noted, people may join together for anti-fascist activity, and any organization may participate in such activity. That does not imply an "Antifa" organization any more than the activity of fascists implies a Fascist organization.

There are many fascist and fascist-leaning groups and individuals, and many opposing them. Anyone may oppose them, without need for permission. Organizing with local others can produce greater effect. That also does not require permission.

Any existing organization may choose to engage in anti-fascist activity, possibly in coördination with other groups. That also does not imply an "Antifa" organization.

Opposition to fascism is everyone's responsibility. How that opposition may best be effected varies with circumstance. Rooting out fascism in police departments is an obviously important part of anti-fascist activity.

Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#74

Post by [deleted] »

mushbino wrote: post #65
poweronselftest wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> particularly gold mines. The commenters who compared prisons in the United States with Gulags, where you were sent to dig for gold basically by hand, poorly dressed at -30C for 12 hours. > So, not just prisons or labor camps. It is hard to imagine how 81% or 87% could be identified as ordinary criminals in the absence of any semblance of due process. A tortured confession is not a verdict. It takes a special kind o…

I'm open to being wrong if you have evidence to the contrary, but you've only been offering anecdotes and ad-hominems.

[deleted]

Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#75

Post by obscoth »

bennysonething wrote: post #59
obscoth wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the problem here. Do we want bigots to feel free to spew their hatred unopposed?

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not a racist. Far from it. I don't think race should come into anything. However it seems we're trying to make identity and race part of everything. That someone's opinion should count more or less because of their identity. This isn't a good idea.

That’s nice. Maybe in 500 years we can forget about race. Right now there are lots of people who are actively, intentionally racist, and as long as they are around, making race taboo just means you give cover to such people.

Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#76

Post by WaxProlix »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #67
WaxProlix wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you seeing this work of fiction as one of the greatest works of journalism of the 20th century is exactly why I posted. I agree that the gulag system sucks? So don't think I'm in favor of the USSR or something, because I'm not. But the book's content isn't real, it's largely fabrication, and you can say something like "I think he speaks to the truth of the situation despite not accurately representing fa…

Solzhenitsyn is required reading today for Russion schoolchildren. That alone ought to speak to its importance and accuracy -- not of figures per se (unbeknownst to him, some of his sources were not accurate), but the reality of the horrors committed by the Soviets, which he experienced first-hand. Have you read at least the first few chapters of The Gulag Archipelago?

> Solzhenitsyn is required reading today for Russion schoolchildren

Russia is an authoritarian oligarchy and their school system presumably reflects this. I don't think this is a mark in favor of what you think it is.

> Have you read at least the first few chapters of The Gulag Archipelago?

As a teenager, yes, do you think I'm missing something crucial, specifically from the early bits?

Re: Solzhenitsyn’s Rosary (2016)

#77

Post by WaxProlix »

zpeti wrote: post #57
WaxProlix wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you seeing this work of fiction as one of the greatest works of journalism of the 20th century is exactly why I posted. I agree that the gulag system sucks? So don't think I'm in favor of the USSR or something, because I'm not. But the book's content isn't real, it's largely fabrication, and you can say something like "I think he speaks to the truth of the situation despite not accurately representing fa…

Gulag system sucks? I don't know what country you are from, but I doubt its any with experiences of death camps. Take your non historical post truth head out of your ass and realise that MILLIONS of people were killed in nazi germany, the gulags, by the chinese communists. MILLIONS others were starved to death because food was confiscated from them. These systems don't SUCK. They were the lowest points of human histo…

> Gulag system sucks?

> I don't know what country you are from, but I doubt its any with experiences of death camps.

I'm sorry that I wasn't sufficiently excoratory of the gulags. What adjective do you think would make you feel I have an acceptable level of distaste for forced labor camps?

I also don't think the gulags were death camps, weren't they "reeducation" and labor camps? Unlike a death camp, the point is to produce labor (in large part this uncompensated, essentially slave, labor was a major contributor to the USSR's ability to take on a half decade's industrialization in a fifth of the time, or so I'm led to believe).

> I'm so fucking angry with apologists like you. You have no idea what people went through.

I don't think you're in a state to have a rational conversation about politics, because it sounds like you have personal or familial experience with these institutions. I know some of my close friends have very close ties to the Trail of Tears in the USA and I also avoid talking to them about the issue - not because it's taboo, but because I don't think there's a meaningful conversation to be had there. It was an atrocity, and will never be made right. What can you say to that?

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