On Being Blacklisted • Hacker News Board

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#71

Post by beaconstudios » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #54

josephg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He expects that by calling the publishers of some journal "craven" and "scared", that he's going to elicit a reversal of their decision Thats not my read of the situation. I agree that if his goal was to convince the authors, it would make sense for him to be more accomodating. And it wouldn't make sense to call them out in public. But thats not his goal here. To my eyes, this piece takes a shot at the culture whic…

What I find amusing is that the same center-right and right-wing mouthpieces that complain the loudest about 'cancel culture' have themselves been deeply involved in attempting to 'cancel' things for the past 40 years, anything they dislike or find distasteful, a random assortment of which includes. rap music and any music with "vulgar" lyrics (PARENTAL WARNING labels on CDs) harry potter (satanic magic messages offe…

There are plenty of people with liberal viewpoints that are against both of these groups of cancellers, myself included. Progressive cancel culture is cancerous and so is Conservative cancel culture. So too was the red scare and the inquisition and the Salem witch hunts. Moral panics as a general concept are ridiculous and dangerous to society regardless of political affiliation.

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#72

Post by marshmallow_12 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

cpitman wrote: post #21

yew wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? I've just read the article. It's a collection of crypto-fascist dog whistles about race; it barely merits being called an opinion. (It is an example of why the academic personnel pool needs the thorough cleaning it's currently getting.) Anyone who declined to associate with the author would be right to do so. There aren't many people who don't understand what this kind of article is really about. The Chicago Rev…

It seems like calling it a collection of dog whistles is directly addressed by this paragraph: "The trouble is that Nazis are human beings, and they have many benign thoughts along with their antisemitism. So I might avoid repeating some ordinary, unthreatening statement uttered by someone with a Nazi reputation, lest you think that I sound like a Nazi. Soon only actual Nazis and a few weirdos who don’t care what oth…

But why discuss Nazis if they are not strictly necessary for the article? It rubs me the wrong way that some people seem to delight in the intellectual brinksmanship of philosophising about what we can keep from Nazis and what not. It's normally useless and foolish speculation that just serves to delegitimze the threat of nazism.

Please just forget about the Nazis. Never forget what they did, but don't rationalise them. It's just plain insensitive.

Thank you.

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#73

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

schoen wrote: post #40

yew wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? I've just read the article. It's a collection of crypto-fascist dog whistles about race; it barely merits being called an opinion. (It is an example of why the academic personnel pool needs the thorough cleaning it's currently getting.) Anyone who declined to associate with the author would be right to do so. There aren't many people who don't understand what this kind of article is really about. The Chicago Rev…

I would most likely have downvoted your reply if I'd encountered it in any other context, but I upvoted it because you were replying to an invitation to defend the magazine's decision that purported to be curious about why someone would defend it. I really don't like the pattern of asking "I'm curious whether anyone would seriously advocate opinion X that's controversial in this community, and why" and then downvotin…

[deleted]

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#74

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #32

Nobody owes you a free publishing platform. He expects that by calling the publishers of some journal "craven" and "scared", that he's going to elicit a reversal of their decision, and positive response from them, something to the effect of "oh, how dare we deny your article, woe unto us, we were so dreadfully wrong"... Really? The biggest takeaway that I got from his December essay, and this one? A sense of self rig…

[deleted]

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#75

Post by slibhb » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #54

josephg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He expects that by calling the publishers of some journal "craven" and "scared", that he's going to elicit a reversal of their decision Thats not my read of the situation. I agree that if his goal was to convince the authors, it would make sense for him to be more accomodating. And it wouldn't make sense to call them out in public. But thats not his goal here. To my eyes, this piece takes a shot at the culture whic…

What I find amusing is that the same center-right and right-wing mouthpieces that complain the loudest about 'cancel culture' have themselves been deeply involved in attempting to 'cancel' things for the past 40 years, anything they dislike or find distasteful, a random assortment of which includes. rap music and any music with "vulgar" lyrics (PARENTAL WARNING labels on CDs) harry potter (satanic magic messages offe…

"The right wing censored us during the 20th century, now it's our turn"

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#76

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

yew wrote: post #15

hirundo wrote: post #12

Is there anyone that wants to defend this blacklisting of the author by the Chicago Review for writing this article [0]? That is, not to reconfirm that they do indeed have the right to do so, but to argue that they are right to do so? Maybe some of us can avoid this fate if we understand the grounds for it, since they decline to make it explicit. What did he say that was not just wrong, but so wrong that he should no…

Yes? I've just read the article. It's a collection of crypto-fascist dog whistles about race; it barely merits being called an opinion. (It is an example of why the academic personnel pool needs the thorough cleaning it's currently getting.) Anyone who declined to associate with the author would be right to do so. There aren't many people who don't understand what this kind of article is really about. The Chicago Rev…

Good grief. I will start by agreeing with you on one thing. Chicago Review does not owe the author a platform.

Other than that, it is genuinely hard to respond to this comment without wondering whether parents' post is serious. I just read both articles and I do not get how the irony of what the author discussed is lost. What are those collections of dog whistles? I think I need an example. Is it the mere mention of a nazi? Saying they are human beings too with all that comes along with that simple fact? Is the 'literary blackface' that throws people off?

I genuinely want to know, because if this is a serious comment and people hear dog-whistles here, they probably have not heard an actual racist, ever.

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#77

Post by scared_liberal » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #54

josephg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He expects that by calling the publishers of some journal "craven" and "scared", that he's going to elicit a reversal of their decision Thats not my read of the situation. I agree that if his goal was to convince the authors, it would make sense for him to be more accomodating. And it wouldn't make sense to call them out in public. But thats not his goal here. To my eyes, this piece takes a shot at the culture whic…

What I find amusing is that the same center-right and right-wing mouthpieces that complain the loudest about 'cancel culture' have themselves been deeply involved in attempting to 'cancel' things for the past 40 years, anything they dislike or find distasteful, a random assortment of which includes. rap music and any music with "vulgar" lyrics (PARENTAL WARNING labels on CDs) harry potter (satanic magic messages offe…

Many actual liberals who admire the open and uncensored leftism of 1970 think that both the right wing censorship and the now prevalent not-woke-enough censorship are repulsive.

Except that one of these can only be criticized anonymously.

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#78

Post by JoshuaDavid » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #54

josephg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He expects that by calling the publishers of some journal "craven" and "scared", that he's going to elicit a reversal of their decision Thats not my read of the situation. I agree that if his goal was to convince the authors, it would make sense for him to be more accomodating. And it wouldn't make sense to call them out in public. But thats not his goal here. To my eyes, this piece takes a shot at the culture whic…

What I find amusing is that the same center-right and right-wing mouthpieces that complain the loudest about 'cancel culture' have themselves been deeply involved in attempting to 'cancel' things for the past 40 years, anything they dislike or find distasteful, a random assortment of which includes. rap music and any music with "vulgar" lyrics (PARENTAL WARNING labels on CDs) harry potter (satanic magic messages offe…

I don't think those are the same people. For example, one of the most vocal people I know who is speaking out against the culture of censorship is a school librarian. During the early '00s, she organized and promoted Banned Book Week events every year, against the wishes of the rather conservative community, because she thought it was important to have the freedom to read and form your own opinions.

Some people just don't like censorship.

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#79

Post by refenestrator » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #44

hirundo wrote: post #12

Is there anyone that wants to defend this blacklisting of the author by the Chicago Review for writing this article [0]? That is, not to reconfirm that they do indeed have the right to do so, but to argue that they are right to do so? Maybe some of us can avoid this fate if we understand the grounds for it, since they decline to make it explicit. What did he say that was not just wrong, but so wrong that he should no…

By including Kunin, they lost enough other contributors that their project was threatened. As a voluntary effort by grad students, they don't have the time or money to make a spirited defense of Kunin. He's had to take up his martyrdom on his own. I'm sure Kunin would have been very happy for them to burn their project down for his sake. Kunin's sake is not the only one at play here.

Ok, let's take that at face value. Are the unspecified others who would burn them down justified? At the end of the day, is there any positive moral case for this?

Re: On Being Blacklisted

#80

Post by sickofparadox » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

cpitman wrote: post #68

sickofparadox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dog Whistle (Politics): The use of coded or suggestive language in political messaging to garner support from a particular group without provoking opposition. [Wikipedia] To what group is this directed? What about this speaks to the "Crypto-fascists" the above commenter mentions? Is it simply the word Nazi? I have read through this a few times and I'm having a difficult time finding the angle in which this could be a…

Calling it dog-whistles instead of calling out specific issues with the argument implies that the problem isn't what he is saying, but that he is saying things that sound like things said by other people. IE, calling it crypto-fascist dog whistles is saying "I think he is a fascist because he says things I think fascists say, but isn't actually coming out and saying fascist things". Which, in the end, means that no o…

I understand and completely agree. I suppose my comment would have better been directed at the original commenter, as their take was so alien to my reading of the text.