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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#71

Post by etiam »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #54
jeffrallen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, but lots of Switzerland is rural, and dropping off paperwork is no more bother than picking up a loaf of bread. Lots of us like seeing our neighbor, who happens to also be our greffe communal.

No one is saying you can't see your neighbor if you don't have errands to run.

Exactly, no one is saying you can't see your neighbor if you don't have errands to run.

But the fact is you won't be doing that anywhere near as much if the way of doing the errands works against seeing people as if it works for. Defaults matter, a lot.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#72

Post by ketzu »

elmo2you wrote: post #18
xiphias2 wrote: post #2

Switzerland has this in its constitution: Article 13: Right to Privacy 1. All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. 2. All persons have the right to be protected against the abuse of personal data. Also the constitution can be only changed by voting.

Plenty of countries (if not most) have this or something similar, anchored in either their constitution or at least in regular law. This should not come as a surprise either, since it's essentially the implementation of Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Where it usually goes wrong, is with the interpretation of the words "privacy" and "communication". Also, governments have a habit of defining…

The universal declaration of human rights 12 [1] contains the very important word "arbitrary" as a qualifier of privacy violations.

> No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

One reason for this has broad applicability: Even inalienable human rights can be in conflict with each other. So solutions must weight them against each other, but will ultimately violate one or more of the clashing rights.

The UDHR also recognizes the that even the article 3 "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person" is limited as in so far people may be arrested (and therefore deprived of their freedom) by giving the explicit article 9 "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile." Again, with the arbitrary qualifier.

I believe, recognizing that even these funamental rights clash with each other is important. Often I feel that online discussion have each side pick the one in favor of their position and ignoring that other rights are in conflict with that position.

But as you said, it is also important to recognize that there are bullshit excuses.

[1] https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#73

Post by rdevsrex »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #50

They are also incredibly xenophobic (i.e. Japanese levels).

They is a over generalization. I’m American and black and my wife is Swiss and I have plenty of friends who are also Swiss and nothing but welcoming. Also xenophobic is unclear. Having a strict immigration policy is not xenophobic. You should be more precise.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#74

Post by cmehdy »

esja wrote: post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

Which makes a lot of sense in Switzerland, since "the government is the people" is more true than in the overwhelming majority of countries on Earth. Pragmatic take from the Swiss as usual :)

(said by a jealous French citizen)

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#75

Post by fla »

warent wrote: post #68
max_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really admire the swiss political system & culture. It's has all the modern postulates of liberty & governance that most countries are striving for without the "scam orchestration"

This seems to be the largely the case with scandinavian countries in general. I've been seriously considering leaving the USA permanently because I'm having a difficult time reconciling my morals and ideals with the taxes I pay. Ballots and debates aren't enough. I'd rather vote with my taxes and my feet, and start helping a county I believe in.

Switzerland is not part of Scandinavia

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#76

Post by chrisseaton »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #50

They are also incredibly xenophobic (i.e. Japanese levels).

> They are also incredibly xenophobic

The Swiss are xenophobic? Eh?

They welcome people from all over the world to come together to work towards peace and humanitarianism in their country. They host the only truly international humanitarian organisation in the world. They helped build many of the institutions that try to reduce conflict.

Calling them xenophobic is bizarre.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#77

Post by folli »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #50

They are also incredibly xenophobic (i.e. Japanese levels).

As a datapoint: Switzerland has the highest proportion of foreigners in Europe (25%; with the exception of Luxembourg, and perhaps some microstates like Vatican, Monte Carlo, don't know about those).

So I don't think there's any comparison at all to Japan (2%).

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#78

Post by chrisseaton »

warent wrote: post #68
max_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really admire the swiss political system & culture. It's has all the modern postulates of liberty & governance that most countries are striving for without the "scam orchestration"

This seems to be the largely the case with scandinavian countries in general. I've been seriously considering leaving the USA permanently because I'm having a difficult time reconciling my morals and ideals with the taxes I pay. Ballots and debates aren't enough. I'd rather vote with my taxes and my feet, and start helping a county I believe in.

I think you're possibly confusing Switzerland with Sweden there...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#79

Post by marcod »

wombatmobile wrote: post #55

Switzerland has an awesome electoral system [1]. Instead of being ruled by a president or a prime minister who can be polarising, divisive, or selective, Switzerland has an Executive Council. The 7 member Executive Council is composed of the top 7 candidates from each election. The chairperson of the executive council rotates each year, so that the top 4 vote winners each get a turn at being chairperson. This means t…

Well, that same system also voted on banning Muslim face coverings ("Experts estimate that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full-face coverings in the country of 8.5 million people."), while a pandemic is going on and face coverings for protection are recommended.

https://apnews.com/article/health-legislation-coronavirus-pa...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#80

Post by KirillPanov »

dheera wrote: post #33
xiphias2 wrote: post #2

Switzerland has this in its constitution: Article 13: Right to Privacy 1. All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. 2. All persons have the right to be protected against the abuse of personal data. Also the constitution can be only changed by voting.

> All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. I really wish the US had this. Here, even simple acts like registering to vote or getting a driver license, bank account, credit card means your personal residence gets leaked to spammers, scammers, data brokers, and eventually, stalkers. There really should be laws saying that per…

I'm thinking of buying a condemned, uninhabitable house in a tax foreclosure auction simply so I can list it as my residential address. Most places that demand a utility bill will accept a property tax bill, so it doesn't even have to have working water/power (the cheapest doomshacks have both shut off). You'd be surprised how cheap some of these places are. But it does have to show up as "residential" in the USPS databases.
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