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Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

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Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#71

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

arcturus17 wrote: post #53
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that does not carry over to all languages. It does. All languages are basically the same. They parse to ASTs that you can manipulate programmatically. If those ASTs are strongly typed, you can safely perform refractors. What makes IntelliJ good is the base framework JetBrains uses, the same one they use in WebStorm, PyCharm, etc. VSCode is that same thing: an adaptable base and I’m sure making it on par for Jav…

Absolutely not, there are many, many language-specific things that an IDE does beyond code hints. Microsoft doesn't seem to be investing that much, if anything, on languages other than JS/TS; it is delegating all on the OSS community through plugins. And while some of the plugins are really good, in my experience they don't even come close to the native capabilities of Jetbrains products.

This is what Microsoft does. Their #1 thing is being in the market even if the product is bad. They’re delegating now, but wait until they’ve established their foothold, leveled up the core framework. Then they’re going to stop delegating one language after another.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#72

Post by st3fan »

skohan wrote: post #28
ssijak wrote: post #11

For typed languages like Java and Kotlin there is really no competition. IntelliJ is just clearly above every other IDE. For dynamic languages advantages are less clear, but still there. Every time I tried to use VsCode for longer periods of time on my JS/TS projects, I would stumble on many small bugs and problems, usually with extensions that I would loose the nerve and just get back to Webstorm.

It shouldn't be surprising, right? Didn't Kotlin start as a JetBrains project?

It did, and millions of Android developers use Android Studio, which is of course also part of the IntelliJ family. So I'm sure that and the (financial?) relationship with Google has also helped a crazy amount with making the whole platform better.

I read somewhere that Jetbrains is valued a billion dollars these days. With zero investor funding. This is a very very serious business with smart leadership.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#73

Post by Delmania »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #46
wokwokwok wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Microsoft has delegated Java support to redhat. ...no surprise, why would they waste their time on it? They give zero fruitcakes about Java. Let’s just say, 3rd party plugins (like the redhat Java language support) are.... not of the same quality... as the Microsoft plugins.

It’s possible they lack vision and focus for this thing, such that they go out and do “Java support” without making it good or caring about it. On the other hand, we’re talking about Microsoft. If you lived in the 90s, I find it hard to imagine how you can see Microsoft in any other light. I know: different times, different leadership. But still: it seems possible that they’ve got a huge vision for this and want to d…

I think it’s less that and more that Microsoft is leveraging Redhat’s focus on Java. They have built a good editor and plug-in environment, then engage organizations stronger in other tech and have them build support.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#75

Post by kvakva »

Curious about people who switched to something like Webstorm from VS Code. I've tried it for Typescript development and didnt find much of a difference. I can say webstorm has better , more clean ui for Git, but that's it. Certainly issue was that I could only try it shortly on simple project. Would love it here about some more example from other where to see the differences.

Btw I am pretty impressed with Quick fix and autocomplete functionality for VS code. It's IMHO pretty great for text editor.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#76

Post by st3fan »

jart wrote: post #22
The_rationalist wrote: post #5

HN deserve better content than this, while the topic is interesting there are too much errors, unadjusted logical quantifiers and omissions to make this biased writing worth a read.

It's also posted by some anonymous throwaway account that was registered on GitHub three days ago. JetBrains deserves more respect than this. They're not threatened. They're a rising star. They're making tons of money when the rest of the industry thought there wasn't any money to be had in tools anymore. I love them because speaking as a long time Emacs user, JetBrains makes the only IDEs I've seen that simulates Em…

> They're a rising star. They're making tons of money when the rest of the industry thought there wasn't any money to be had in tools anymore.

I think this is key - WHO knew that you could build out a billion dollar business from developer tools.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#78

Post by arcturus17 »

monsieurbanana wrote: post #50
matsemann wrote: post #2

Most of this post is just speculation like " I seriously doubt it will work well in an average cafe though " without much substance. Either test it or report on it, or at least discuss its shortcomings based on some technical merits. And frankly I don't care how well it works on "spotty café wifi". If the wifi sucks I wouldn't sit there and work anyway. As for the language server protocol, nothing stops IDEA from doi…

> Most of this post is just speculation like "I seriously doubt it will work well in an average cafe though" Meh. I don't think that's his main point. The two advantages of vscode he points out are: - browsers, and by extension Electron, are the best funded cross-platform GUI - vscode offloads language support to compilers (or other third-party tools) via LSP (Language Server Protocol) Electron apps are... slow craps…

It's important to note that IntelliJ is not Jetbrains' only product. PyCharm has seen a very significant growth during this period too (7.7% -> 13.4%), although PHPStorm has decreased (11.6% -> 7.6%).

Regardless, I find it remarkable that IntelliJ hasn't lost an inch of ground (it's even made modest gains) despite VSCode's explosion.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#79

Post by matsemann »

monsieurbanana wrote: post #50
matsemann wrote: post #2

Most of this post is just speculation like " I seriously doubt it will work well in an average cafe though " without much substance. Either test it or report on it, or at least discuss its shortcomings based on some technical merits. And frankly I don't care how well it works on "spotty café wifi". If the wifi sucks I wouldn't sit there and work anyway. As for the language server protocol, nothing stops IDEA from doi…

> Most of this post is just speculation like "I seriously doubt it will work well in an average cafe though" Meh. I don't think that's his main point. The two advantages of vscode he points out are: - browsers, and by extension Electron, are the best funded cross-platform GUI - vscode offloads language support to compilers (or other third-party tools) via LSP (Language Server Protocol) Electron apps are... slow craps…

Why is it an advantage being Electron? If anything, IDEA is also cross-platform. As for speed, VSC is faster as a text editor, but not that much faster for IDE stuff if you try to use it as that. Even slower some times, maybe LSP incurs some overhead IntelliJ don't have to do.

While I get the point of LSP, as I wrote in another comment an IDE is much more than understanding the AST of the language and providing autocomplete.

I don't get your point about usage. What is it supposed to show? Even though VsCode is growing fast, JetBrains products are also growing and thus has a merit to them?

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#80

Post by daniel-thompson »

> That situation may catch the IDEA family between a rock and a hard place: it has to outdo compilers

CLion (the C/C++ variant of the JetBrains IDE family) introduced built-in support for the clangd language server in 2018. It's not perfect (https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues?q=clangd), but they improve the integration with every release. I leave it turned on by default now.

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