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A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

sciencealert.com

71–80 of 103 posts

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#71
post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

I believe I underestimated animal intelligence, and as an extension of that, animal consciousness. I have no proof that animals are intelligent or sentient or whatever. I do however have no reason to assume otherwise. As a result I’ve stopped eating meat almost entirely, and I suspect I’ll eliminate it entirely eventually. I still eat fish and shellfish. I struggle to understand how I disregarded animal minds for dec…

With apologies to Sinclair: it is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his dinner plate depends on his not understanding it.

Cooking is a source of pleasure and society. My cultural Christian inheritance (and yours?) is quite committed to the separateness of people and animals. Many people deny even the wholeness of the human species. Where is the mystery in your beliefs? It is only an inheritance you now reject.

You can come back to meat later, or not, in your own time. Sort of like when you go far enough left, you get your guns back. There is nothing shameful in a cat.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#72
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I underestimated animal intelligence, and as an extension of that, animal consciousness. I have no proof that animals are intelligent or sentient or whatever. I do however have no reason to assume otherwise. As a result I’ve stopped eating meat almost entirely, and I suspect I’ll eliminate it entirely eventually. I still eat fish and shellfish. I struggle to understand how I disregarded animal minds for dec…

> I struggle to understand how I disregarded animal minds for decades, but I suspect it can be reduced to arrogance, convenience, and gluttony. I don't think that cephalopods are arrogant when they eat other creatures, although I suppose they may be gluttonous. Why hold yourself to a higher standard than you hold the animals you refrain from eating?

That's why I like eating tuna! They're out hunting and killing, and then have one very bad day. Live by the sword ...

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I read about octopi I'm stunned at their intelligence and ability to connect with humans. If our civilization lasts long enough, someday we'll all be reviled for eating animals, especially octopi and pigs.

How come you include pigs but leave out cows?

The parent commenter has probably, like me, heard that pigs are remarkably intelligent. I haven't heard the same of cows.

That may very well be a skewed understanding, but it's likely why they choose that grouping.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#74
post #69
post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

> I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Great post. Respectfully, though, I disagree with the excerpt above. I find that urbanization has led to a disconnect between people and animals. In times past, a person would have regular contact…

I have family who still live a pretty rural life, close to nature. They care very little about animals compared to my urban friends and family. They view animals as little more than "moving things" or simply food.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#75
post #69
post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

> I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Great post. Respectfully, though, I disagree with the excerpt above. I find that urbanization has led to a disconnect between people and animals. In times past, a person would have regular contact…

> One need look no further than the numerous metaphors that have been passed down from these non-urban times: stubborn as a mule, wise as serpents, cunning like a fox, horse-sense, wise as an owl, etc...

Are you sure that comes from nature observation ?

Satire used to criticize the powerful of the world picturing them as animals. So these associations might not come from where you think they do. La Fontaine's fables are a good example of that. He was not the only one to do that.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#76
post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

Every time I read about octopi I'm stunned at their intelligence and ability to connect with humans. If our civilization lasts long enough, someday we'll all be reviled for eating animals, especially octopi and pigs.

Taken further, you might argue that there might be condemnation eventually of the whole concept of pets and work animals too. I'm not sure I "condemn" these ideas, but I don't have a pet because I think animals should be wild. I make my own ethical comprimises, though, don't get me wrong.

Harry Harrison wrote a book I read many years ago called West of Eden, where the dinosaur extinction event didn't occur. An advanced species of lizard used modified lifeforms for their tech. I have it on my list to read again. It does make you think people might be more symbiotic towards the world rather than what we have now.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#77
post #75
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Great post. Respectfully, though, I disagree with the excerpt above. I find that urbanization has led to a disconnect between people and animals. In times past, a person would have regular contact…

> One need look no further than the numerous metaphors that have been passed down from these non-urban times: stubborn as a mule, wise as serpents, cunning like a fox, horse-sense, wise as an owl, etc... Are you sure that comes from nature observation ? Satire used to criticize the powerful of the world picturing them as animals. So these associations might not come from where you think they do. La Fontaine's fables…

I have firsthand knowledge of the sayings in regard to mules, horses, and foxes. They are very accurate.

Never thought snakes were that ‘wise’ though. Don’t know about owls.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they were; that's what the title implies. Else, why the comparison? And I'm curious if those studies of animal intelligence, actually tried a human. Could I remember thousands of place I put stuff? I think I do. I have a whole house full of stuff, and can find most of it quickly. I remember where I kept my socks in an apartment I lived in 30 years ago. So yeah no, animals maybe aren't ahead of us in cognitive fu…

Animals certianly aren't ahead of us in human cognitive function, but that feels like a loaded competition. Humans do have a hard time imagining intelligence as anything other than what we have.

Not me. I can easily imagine animals having better senses and better integration of those senses.

But I have to doubt, when somebody claims (as in the title above) that some animal is cognitively more advanced that a human child. That's linkbait and best, and plain wrong at bottom.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come you include pigs but leave out cows?

The parent commenter has probably, like me, heard that pigs are remarkably intelligent. I haven't heard the same of cows. That may very well be a skewed understanding, but it's likely why they choose that grouping.

Personally, I don’t see cows as very different from dogs.

They’re just as social and emotional as dogs are.

Intelligence wise, dogs are probably a bit smarter. But how much, I don’t know, they don’t seem that radically different.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#80
post #74
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Great post. Respectfully, though, I disagree with the excerpt above. I find that urbanization has led to a disconnect between people and animals. In times past, a person would have regular contact…

I have family who still live a pretty rural life, close to nature. They care very little about animals compared to my urban friends and family. They view animals as little more than "moving things" or simply food.

You may be mixing apples and oranges...

The degree of ‘compassion’ one has toward an animal is not directly correlated to one’s opinions as to its intelligence.

My uncle raised pigs. A frequent topic of conversation was how smart they are. Without question, they’re smarter than dogs. (I had a pet pig growing up.)

Yet, we ate then.

An even more brutal example: slavery. It was obvious and undeniable that human slaves were intelligent; yet, that didn’t mean that compassion towards them was common.

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