Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 231 posts

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#71

Post by davismwfl »

_jal wrote: post #43
davismwfl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a bug, this is by design. There is no possible way this wasn't spec'd as a test scenario to force payment compliance. They know they have leverage that a bank wouldn't have so they are using it.

And you know this.. how? Or are you simply following a chain of assumptions to a place that meets your opinion of Apple?

I added some clarification in another reply.

To your point, I don't know for fact just as you don't know for fact I'm wrong. And this could even be a false claim without having some sort of proof. Maybe my wording was to deterministic and should've been worded as more a "possibility", but a complex system like this takes a ton of requirements and testing and it is super hard to see Apple not paying attention to this specific issue.

You don't know my opinion of Apple. I generally like Apple and use them for quite a lot of things. Sure, maybe they are priced too high on some hardware (IMO) and some app store policies I dislike but overall I don't view them as evil and I build things for their platform because it is worth it. Apple simply takes advantage of their platform and why wouldn't they?

My one complaint with Apple is just wanting to know all the rules ahead of time so we can play by the rules, and sometimes it does feel like we find many of the rules out through this type of scenario versus Apple being 100% transparent up front.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#72

Post by ogre_codes »

caymanjim wrote: post #48
samatman wrote: post #27

So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. I set it up to pay a few subscriptions and promptly forgot about it. As a result, I carried a balance for I think three months without making payments, and only noticed when I hit my credit limit. This was an expensive mistake, and also dinged my credit score for about four months. Still kinda mad at myse…

> So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. Why is that embarassing? Why on earth would you set up auto-pay? That's just asking for a headache if anything is every compromised, or if a vendor fraudulently or accidentally overcharges you. Reversing charges from your bank is a headache, and rogue charges can quickly cascade into a series of overdra…

> Why on earth would you set up auto-pay?

Because it's super convenient. I resisted a long time and just had some of my accounts set to pay minimum payments, but that got expensive when I forgot to make manual payments.

Regardless, the important bit here isn't so much that he forgot autopay, it's that he didn't pay at all for 3 months.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#74

Post by ljm »

caymanjim wrote: post #48
samatman wrote: post #27

So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. I set it up to pay a few subscriptions and promptly forgot about it. As a result, I carried a balance for I think three months without making payments, and only noticed when I hit my credit limit. This was an expensive mistake, and also dinged my credit score for about four months. Still kinda mad at myse…

> So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. Why is that embarassing? Why on earth would you set up auto-pay? That's just asking for a headache if anything is every compromised, or if a vendor fraudulently or accidentally overcharges you. Reversing charges from your bank is a headache, and rogue charges can quickly cascade into a series of overdra…

So I guess this is a US thing. Is 'auto-pay' the same thing as setting up a monthly direct debit to pay either your minimum payment, a percentage, or to clear the full balance?

If that's the case, and I can only speak for my experience in the UK and across the EU for a few years, I'll take the automated payment over the infinitesimal threat of being compromised and clicking a 'dispute this payment' link in my account.

ATM withdrawals have far more risk and you wouldn't do those with a credit card.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#75

Post by Symbiote »

caymanjim wrote: post #48
samatman wrote: post #27

So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. I set it up to pay a few subscriptions and promptly forgot about it. As a result, I carried a balance for I think three months without making payments, and only noticed when I hit my credit limit. This was an expensive mistake, and also dinged my credit score for about four months. Still kinda mad at myse…

> So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. Why is that embarassing? Why on earth would you set up auto-pay? That's just asking for a headache if anything is every compromised, or if a vendor fraudulently or accidentally overcharges you. Reversing charges from your bank is a headache, and rogue charges can quickly cascade into a series of overdra…

Other than shopping, I don't think I have any payments from my account that aren't auto-pay (direct debit, the other person chooses the amount).

I check the bank account every 6 weeks or so, and can investigate then if necessary. It's never been necessary.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#76

Post by jbtule »

dcurtis wrote: post #47
nemothekid wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I don't think Apple Card has anything to do with it - I think his iCloud subscription was past due and that was that disabled his account - and then he found himself in a Catch 22 where he couldn't update/pay his Apple Card because he was locked out of iCloud. I'd imagine the same would have happened if he let his Visa card lapse.

Nope -- iCloud was not past due. It is an Apple Card policy.

Apples Customer agreement->

Definition ->

“Account” means the Apple Card consumer credit account opened for you under this Agreement

Default actions ->

WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF BEING IN DEFAULT If you are in default, we may take any of the following actions to the extent permitted under applicable law: • Continue to charge you interest as long as you have an outstanding Account balance; • Lower your credit limit; • Decline or otherwise limit your ability to make Transactions; • Report information about your Account to the credit reporting bureaus; • Begin collections activities; • Suspend or close your Account; • Require you to immediately pay all or any portion of your total outstanding balance (this action may also be taken upon death); • If we retain an attorney who is not our salaried employee to collect amounts you owe, we may require you to pay for the court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees that we actually incur; and/or • Take any other action permitted by law.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#77

Post by temp667 »

davismwfl wrote: post #11
pgm8705 wrote: post #6

I'm guessing (and hoping) this is a bug and not intentional, but this is pretty scary. My digital personal life is almost all within Apple's ecosystem, including most of the smart devices in my house. Getting locked out for any amount of time would be super frustrating.

This is not a bug, this is by design. There is no possible way this wasn't spec'd as a test scenario to force payment compliance. They know they have leverage that a bank wouldn't have so they are using it.

"This is not a bug, this is by design."

Please provide some clearer support for this statement of supposed fact.

We've got so many MUCH MORE likely scenarios.

These are the common ones that disable or lock account:

* Repeatedly entering an incorrect Apple ID and password. * Not using your Apple account for an extended amount of time * Billing issues such as unpaid iTunes or App Store orders * Security reasons * Charge disputes on your credit card

I've yet to hear of a missed payment on an apple card resulting in this (and I have an apple card and have missed payments).

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#78

Post by ogre_codes »

samatman wrote: post #27

So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. I set it up to pay a few subscriptions and promptly forgot about it. As a result, I carried a balance for I think three months without making payments, and only noticed when I hit my credit limit. This was an expensive mistake, and also dinged my credit score for about four months. Still kinda mad at myse…

So here's the weird thing.

> No, Apple did not disable my account.

I believe you, but I also trust the original poster by reputation. So what is the difference?

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#79

Post by sksixk »

dcurtis wrote: post #26
kevindong wrote: post #16

This *FEELS* (not saying it is) like a false claim. Much like the much upvoted (and later debunked) HN post from a while back when a iOS developer claimed that Apple always keeps it 30% commission, even on a refunded purchase. I consider it worrying that a claim wholly lacking evidence is getting so much attention. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23995750

I didn't expect that tweet to get so much attention; I'll write up some more details shortly.

Seriously?

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#80

Post by tuckerman »

monadic7 wrote: post #22

I'm really curious who thought it was a good idea to use this line of credit in the first place.

If you are purchasing an apple device, the apple card gives a competitive cash back reward. Many people use credit cards while always paying the balance in full and use them for rewards (you could argue that these rewards are priced into the cost of goods so not getting them is leaving money on the table).

I think it's reasonable to believe that this system as a whole is exploitive and unfair, those with poor credit pay more to fund cash back for others and the high interest rates leading to circles of debt, but given this is the way it is, I think its a perfectly good idea for someone to have an Apple Card depending on their circumstances.

Post reply on HN