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Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

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Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#71

Post by Stormbringer »

mattmanser wrote: post #23
dstein wrote: post #5

I think we are close to the tipping point where a majority of developers begin to favor webapps to iOS native apps. I've seen this coming a mile away. Apple almost lost a big portion of its development community 2 years ago with that whole 3rd party development platform issue. Apple relented, and they are now turning a different crank with the big subscription tax. They are playing a game of monopoly here. It's the s…

We're really nowhere near it at all. The basic economics is that the app market and the exposure from actually being in the app market is just far too massive for that to happen. I'm also amazed at how often the myth that one day we'll all be using really crappy Html5 apps continues. Html5 compared to native apps done by an average developer just plain sucks, no amount of 'HTML5 web apps == AWESOME!' pretending and w…

The native apps done by average developers also suck.

Going to HTML as your presentation layer doesn't suddenly and magically increase (or decrease) the sucktitude factor of the developers involved.

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#72

Post by dstein »

Stormbringer wrote: post #68
dstein wrote: post #5

I think we are close to the tipping point where a majority of developers begin to favor webapps to iOS native apps. I've seen this coming a mile away. Apple almost lost a big portion of its development community 2 years ago with that whole 3rd party development platform issue. Apple relented, and they are now turning a different crank with the big subscription tax. They are playing a game of monopoly here. It's the s…

It isn't a big tax that is suddenly something new. What it is, is a way to prevent developers trying to rort the system and doing an end run around their fee structure. When this first came out, the ones screaming the loudest were the guys who had "free" apps ($0 to Apple) who then built into their apps an "okay, you've been using it for 5 minutes, now pay us $3 ($0 to Apple)" 'one-off subscription'. E.g. you used to…

You're forgetting that there is no other way to sell software or content on an iOS device. You can't circumvent the App Store unless you tell your customers to crack their devices and use Cydia.

I would be completely fine with Apple's App Store restrictions if iOS devices weren't locked down like they are. Even Microsoft never dreamed of the kind of Orwellian nightmare that Apple is spinning around the computing industry.

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#73

Post by colinplamondon »

dstein wrote: post #5

I think we are close to the tipping point where a majority of developers begin to favor webapps to iOS native apps. I've seen this coming a mile away. Apple almost lost a big portion of its development community 2 years ago with that whole 3rd party development platform issue. Apple relented, and they are now turning a different crank with the big subscription tax. They are playing a game of monopoly here. It's the s…

Except that web apps are still awful user experiences compared to native mobile apps.

The work to do a web app even barely comparable to a native app, in terms of responsiveness, is outrageously larger than just firing up Xcode.

I've only ever used two web apps that don't suck- Asana and Flowdock.

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#74

Post by zmonkeyz »

dstein wrote: post #5

I think we are close to the tipping point where a majority of developers begin to favor webapps to iOS native apps. I've seen this coming a mile away. Apple almost lost a big portion of its development community 2 years ago with that whole 3rd party development platform issue. Apple relented, and they are now turning a different crank with the big subscription tax. They are playing a game of monopoly here. It's the s…

Initially this is what Apple was pushing early on with the IPhone. So many people wanted to go native and the beast known as the App Store was born.

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#75

Post by Stormbringer »

dstein wrote: post #72
Stormbringer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a big tax that is suddenly something new. What it is, is a way to prevent developers trying to rort the system and doing an end run around their fee structure. When this first came out, the ones screaming the loudest were the guys who had "free" apps ($0 to Apple) who then built into their apps an "okay, you've been using it for 5 minutes, now pay us $3 ($0 to Apple)" 'one-off subscription'. E.g. you used to…

You're forgetting that there is no other way to sell software or content on an iOS device. You can't circumvent the App Store unless you tell your customers to crack their devices and use Cydia. I would be completely fine with Apple's App Store restrictions if iOS devices weren't locked down like they are. Even Microsoft never dreamed of the kind of Orwellian nightmare that Apple is spinning around the computing indu…

Did you even read the article? It contradicts your first sentence. Also, your initial premise that you are somehow more aware of my memory system than I am... is... deeply flawed.

If you want to reframe the debate in terms of Apple is evil, therefore everything they do, say or think is evil, by all means go and do that. (And they say the fanboys are the ones suffering from a reality distortion field...) But this isn't really the place. I'm sure you can find large numbers of people willing to agree with you though.

On the off chance that you can't find any thread on Hacker News or elsewhere on the Internet that fit that theme... perhaps you should start your own? You could write a blog post about how it is all part of some conspiracy. Or if you're really lazy you could write a top ten list... just pick any ten random Apple news items, there's bound to be someone slagging them off for each of them.

Then you just post that link to Hacker News, you'll get guaranteed upvotes, it will make the front page... and Ta Da!!! "Apple = evil conspiracy" comments will be on topic in that thread! Hooray!

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#76

Post by matwood »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #40
dstein wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if anyone can point out why Apple will be able to continue it's dominance over mobile apps with a 30% tax I'd really like to hear why.

Consumers don't know and don't care about it until it affects them. Apple has been picking on the small guys like Readability and Flow reader. https://www.iflowreader.com/Closing.aspx while silently approving updates to Kindle and Netflix. Let them go after Netflix and Kindle with the shakedown (June 30th is the deadline).

Let them go after Netflix and Kindle with the shakedown (June 30th is the deadline).

What happens to the big boys will be telling. I don't think 30% across the board is going to stay. For a small developer the 30% is probably worth it to get into the store, a small amount of visibility, payment processing, and quick customer access.

For the big content providers like NF, HBOGO, WSJ, NYT, Kindle, etc... who already spend huge amounts of money on payment systems, advertising and support the 30% is an additional middle man that provides little actual value. I think at least for the big content providers Apple will blink because at the end of the day Apple needs content more than the content needs them.

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#77

Post by rimantas »

phlux wrote: post #60
Steko wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile iOS is ... (wait for it) ... killing in medical: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Health-Care-IT/75-Percent-of-Physic...

Thats not the same thing. There is a difference between physicians loving the DEVICE and it being the right platform for a hospital. Trust me I know. I design hospitals and health systems. I love the iPad - but if you think that giving 30% of your margin and 100% of control to apple is the right idea - then you're wrong. Sure, there are a ton of one-off single use apps for iOS and most of them are fantastic - but the…

> Trust me I know. I design hospitals and health systems.

I doubt that would encourage more trust in you.

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#78

Post by rimantas »

dstein wrote: post #5

I think we are close to the tipping point where a majority of developers begin to favor webapps to iOS native apps. I've seen this coming a mile away. Apple almost lost a big portion of its development community 2 years ago with that whole 3rd party development platform issue. Apple relented, and they are now turning a different crank with the big subscription tax. They are playing a game of monopoly here. It's the s…

> It's the same kind of game Microsoft played in the 1990's > and by attrition have lost to the Linux/OSS movement.

Meanwhile web browsing from iDevices surpassed that from Linux…

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#79

Post by phlux »

rimantas wrote: post #77
phlux wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not the same thing. There is a difference between physicians loving the DEVICE and it being the right platform for a hospital. Trust me I know. I design hospitals and health systems. I love the iPad - but if you think that giving 30% of your margin and 100% of control to apple is the right idea - then you're wrong. Sure, there are a ton of one-off single use apps for iOS and most of them are fantastic - but the…

> Trust me I know. I design hospitals and health systems. I doubt that would encourage more trust in you.

Im one of the people trying to fix this shit, not one who has made the current mess....

Re: Financial Times Won't Give Apple A Cut, Drops iOS for Web App

#80

Post by cageface »

Steko wrote: post #58
cageface wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exposure in the app market only matters if you happen to crack into the top 25.

Or if someone ever searches for something like your app which happens sometimes: http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=iphone%20business%2... Those are google searches but the same thing is undoutedly happening thousands of times a day in iTunes/App Store.

All that gets you is a place on page 27 of a list of search results.
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