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Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

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Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#71

Post by emteycz »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #70
barbacoa wrote: post #16

This is one of those rare times I agree with facebook. Why is this Facebook's problem? Sounds like Brazil should be enforcing their laws better. Facebook hosts for-sale postings, how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality?

> how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality? You gotta be kidding me. Facebook is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Just make them do it. Their legal departments will figure it out. They'll probably do it even faster than the brazilian authorities too. Google once fed brazilian judges this exact same excuse after being ordered to take down content. They got told to figure out a wa…

Governments are easily 100x their size and yet they can't do it...

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#72

Post by thanhhaimai »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #70
barbacoa wrote: post #16

This is one of those rare times I agree with facebook. Why is this Facebook's problem? Sounds like Brazil should be enforcing their laws better. Facebook hosts for-sale postings, how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality?

> how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality? You gotta be kidding me. Facebook is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Just make them do it. Their legal departments will figure it out. They'll probably do it even faster than the brazilian authorities too. Google once fed brazilian judges this exact same excuse after being ordered to take down content. They got told to figure out a wa…

Opinions are my own.

> How many problems would be fixed if we stopped feeling sorry for the rich corporations and started requiring them to assume responsibility for the messes they create?

Instead of "problems would be fixed", it would be "how many more problems would be created".

- USPS should assume responsibility for scam mails since they help deliver them. Laws would be created to require USPS to "screen" all mails and refuse to deliver if it deems the mails are spam. After all, it's USPS "greed" to allow those spammers/scammers to send mail.

- Telcos should assume responsibility for telephone frauds. Breaking News: Costco got hacked via telephone social engineering, T-Mobile is being sued. After all, it's the Telcos's "greed" to allow those scammers to make the phone call. They should have an army of operators listening to the phone call and stop the fraud before it happens.

The worst outcome? By "stopped feeling sorry for the rich corporations", we are actually pushing to give them even more power, over our live.

- By asking Facebook to police what is legal, we're handing them the right to decide what's right/wrong. At the same time, it creates even more regulatory captures, discouraging upstart alternatives to join the ring.

The emotionally charged call might appeal to the popular us-vs-them, rich-vs-poor climate, but if we're not careful, it might lead us to the wrong solution.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#73

Post by hetspookjee »

nindalf wrote: post #69
hetspookjee wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see I'm in the wrong on the obviousness of the ownership of the land. I wish I had a good way to verify such things. But I don't and I am getting that no one really has. So, because it's so hard to verify, does that than mean that it's ok to sell? Given that Brazil doesn't have a clear way of proving ownership, and people are abusing this situation and, and Facebook is making a profit of this abuse, while it's clea…

They don't have a way of verifying ownership of any other item on the marketplace either. That tablet I have for sale - did I steal it? Maybe. A thief can easily supply a forged receipt. An honest person who bought if for real might have lost their receipt. It's an intractable problem. It's not possible to verify ownership of every item there is. Should online marketplaces simply shut down then? If they are, people w…

No, I don't think all market places should shut down. This seems like an isolated problem: brazil land for sale is disputed. So, indeed I'm arguing that facebook should upend their services for this specific items untill it's been resolved.

Regarsing the profit. I can't give a specific number. But nothing is free on Facebook or Google. You pay with your data and they provide you a service in return. Facebook creates value from this data and thus creates a profit. It's rather straightforward and not something I should have to explain on HN

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#74

Post by brainless »

For anyone supporting Facebook, I am also on the fence but please consider this:

Facebook and any similar Internet based vehicle (I use this term instead of marketplace, eCommerce, forum, etc. just to generalize) allows sellers* and buyers to reach each other in ways and over distances that were not possible.

This is the effect and gift of the Internet and I am aware of this personally. But, even if individual sellers* or buyers can not be expected to keep up with policies or strict checking, Facebook or any other major, multi-billion $ Internet vehicle has the responsibility since they are pushing their platforms to these people around the world.

Just take a moment to think - Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Uber, AirBnB... are all products from a tiny corner of* the planet and have immense impact on how business and communication occurs across the globe. The impact of negligence might be a lot worse that what the managers sitting in the HQ might understand.

We all have a responsibility, yes. But the Internet giants have more means to do what is needed. They run the business to solely monetize and they are aware of loopholes. They are not naive. Unless citizens of the Internet ask, this will not change.

* Typo fixes

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#75

Post by matheusmoreira »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #72
matheusmoreira wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality? You gotta be kidding me. Facebook is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Just make them do it. Their legal departments will figure it out. They'll probably do it even faster than the brazilian authorities too. Google once fed brazilian judges this exact same excuse after being ordered to take down content. They got told to figure out a wa…

Opinions are my own. > How many problems would be fixed if we stopped feeling sorry for the rich corporations and started requiring them to assume responsibility for the messes they create? Instead of "problems would be fixed", it would be "how many more problems would be created". - USPS should assume responsibility for scam mails since they help deliver them. Laws would be created to require USPS to "screen" all ma…

Not really. Facebook is not some neutral carrier of information. It's not a packet switched network. It's pretty much an advertising company. How could they not be responsible for the adverts they run?

It's actually illegal to tamper with mail or wiretap phones without a warrant. The post office and telecommunications companies can't know what is going on. Same logic applies to networks and it's actually enforced via encryption. Facebook has complete knowledge of everything. It has every bit of information required to make these decisions. Failing to do so is negligence.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#76

Post by MertsA »

LanceH wrote: post #59
foerbert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you follow this line of thought, the conclusion seems to be that if Facebook were to run ads for illegal drugs, explosives, or humans, it would simply be an indication that some country should be enforcing it's laws better. And Facebook would be totally in clear to continue showing those ads. This seems obviously wrong.

If the sale of land on Facebook is not legal, then the government shouldn't record the transfer of title.

They don't, this is just random squatters occupying land that isn't theirs. This is basically on par with finding a vacant lot that the owner doesn't check up on and "selling" it while openly admitting that they don't have title to the land and have no rights to the property. What's surprising is that people are foolish enough to pay them anything. They aren't actually buying anything, they could just not give them a dime and go extract the lumber, slash and burn the lot, etc.

How is this different than someone selling the Brooklyn bridge on Craigslist?

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#77

Post by MertsA »

MattGaiser wrote: post #30
hetspookjee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Facebook is running into a very controversial form of selling counterfeits. Some land is legal to sell, but some is not and it is the responsibility of the platform not to facilitate crime. In this case Facebook is failing to vet their advertisements, so it should stop offering this service until it is capable of doing so within the confines of the law.

> In this case Facebook is failing to vet their advertisements, so it should stop offering this device until it is capable of doing so within the confines of the law. What person to person marketplace is held to this standard? Certainly not Craigslist, eBay, or Fiverr. Arguably not even Amazon.

>Arguably not even Amazon.

They can't even be bothered to follow up on vendors dumping foreign country SKUs in the US and stomping on licensed frequencies. I got a nice letter from AT&T a couple months ago for a European SKU DECT phone from an Amazon listing that was confirmed to be the US SKU that I had purchased a few times prior. The order was even fulfilled by Amazon and they couldn't be bothered to check that the SKU on the box didn't match the product listing.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#78

Post by AniseAbyss »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #72
matheusmoreira wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality? You gotta be kidding me. Facebook is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Just make them do it. Their legal departments will figure it out. They'll probably do it even faster than the brazilian authorities too. Google once fed brazilian judges this exact same excuse after being ordered to take down content. They got told to figure out a wa…

Opinions are my own. > How many problems would be fixed if we stopped feeling sorry for the rich corporations and started requiring them to assume responsibility for the messes they create? Instead of "problems would be fixed", it would be "how many more problems would be created". - USPS should assume responsibility for scam mails since they help deliver them. Laws would be created to require USPS to "screen" all ma…

Facebook doesn't write the laws they just have to enforce them. I don't see how telling Facebook to police their platform according to the laws of the land increases their power.

In fact I'm getting fed up with the extraterritoriality of big tech.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#79

Post by gambiting »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #75
thanhhaimai wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinions are my own. > How many problems would be fixed if we stopped feeling sorry for the rich corporations and started requiring them to assume responsibility for the messes they create? Instead of "problems would be fixed", it would be "how many more problems would be created". - USPS should assume responsibility for scam mails since they help deliver them. Laws would be created to require USPS to "screen" all ma…

Not really. Facebook is not some neutral carrier of information. It's not a packet switched network. It's pretty much an advertising company. How could they not be responsible for the adverts they run? It's actually illegal to tamper with mail or wiretap phones without a warrant. The post office and telecommunications companies can't know what is going on. Same logic applies to networks and it's actually enforced via…

>>How could they not be responsible for the adverts they run?

The whole idea is absurd to me. 20 years ago you had a marketplace section in a newspaper, you rang them and placed an ad for whatever it is you were doing or selling. Sometimes it was even free if it was short enough. It would never ever cross my mind that the newspaper should be responsible for what people post, because...why would they be? They couldn't print ads for drugs or prostitution, but neither can Facebook.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#80

Post by aaron695 »

rsj_hn wrote: post #44
aaron695 wrote: post #31

When I search for this, it's hard to look past the poverty, people who's dwellings are handmade and have no documentation. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/manaus/propertyforsale I guess 50 million people living in real poverty is just a statistic. For all the illegal comments, these dirt poor people living in slums are also living illegally. They probably have no formal property documentation.

What "illegal comments" are you referring to?

Comparing it to human slavery and other illegal things and saying Facebook would remove that so why not this.

In reality a lot of Brazil runs off selling land not based on documentation, which is technically illegal, but it's also peoples entire lives, the shack they built on a hill is theirs and for Facebook to remove the right to sell that is not a small thing.

"Brazil slum dwellers shun home ownership, fearing gentrification" - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-landrights-ngo-idU...

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